PC Paycheck

[Water Bob]

There's a bit of a hidden economic system in the 3.5 game. A PC can throw on his Profession or Craft skill to indicate a weekly wage.

I was thinking of doing this in my game, especially since treasure while adventuring is hard to come by in my universe (note that Conan never had a lot of money, and when he did get some, he usually spent it quickly, leaving him broke again--which means wealth is not easy to come by during the Hyborian Age).

Have any of you GMs out there played around with PC economics over the long term?

Of the two PCs in my game, one is a weaponsmith, while the other is a trapper. I'm thinking of skipping, say, three months or so, off camera, so to speak, than then rolling up some coin for the PCs.

If you've done this before in your games, I'd like to hear how it went. Any pitfalls I should watch out for? What worked well and didn't work so well?





EDIT: Besides, mini-games like this can be quite fun and great ways to move time forward in a campaign.

 

[Sekhmet]

One of my PC's had found a dragon egg, and the party agreed to take a few dozen years off for the druid to raise it. They were all long-lived races, so it wasn't too much of an issue.

During the time, the party agreed that they would perform trades or other jobs that they had decided upon prior (a sailor, an armorer, a scribe, and a sage) to net some sort of income.
Much of it was used in sustaining their life styles (room at an inn, food, etc). In the end, they didn't come out with enough spending money to upset any balance.

 

[Greenfield]

Generally, in D&D 3.*, there is such a schism between PC economy and civilian economy that the two might as well be on different planes of existence.

The money that a PC can make from their profession or craft skills is so small compared with what they can make in the field that it's no comparison.

For example, if a PC manages to kill one Orc, and he has no treasure on him at all, not a copper piece, not a backpack, bedroll, belt, pair of shoes or a dagger, just his weapons and armor, the PC can sell the studded leather armor and falchion for 50 gp.

So how much can a 1st level PC earn, even as a skilled professional? (Presume max ranks, plus one or two from ability.)

If we score by Profession, he'll make 3 gp a week. That presumes 4 points in the skill (max for 1st level) and 2 points from Wisdom. If he only has one point of wisdom bonus, drop that to 2.5 gp a week.

So the income from killing a single Orc and getting nothing but his gear (as listed in the SRD) is 12.5 for the Studded Leather armor (25 in the book, sold for half price) plus 37.5 for the Falchion (75 in the book, sold at half price). That's somewhere between 16 and 20 weeks worth of working a trade.

There isn't a "you make this much per week" rule for Craft skills, but I'd probably use pretty much the same formula, as a shortcut.

Think you could manage to kill an Orc every four to five months? Maybe two? Possibly even three?

Ah, but what if you're not 1st level? Then what? Well, add 1 GP per week per two levels of advancement. So by 5th level you'll only need to work 10 weeks to make as much as you got killing that single, penniless Orc.

That's the D&D economy, in a nutshell. And believe me, a nutshell is exactly where it belongs.

 

[Samloyal23]

There's a bit of a hidden economic system in the 3.5 game. A PC can throw on his Profession or Craft skill to indicate a weekly wage.

I was thinking of doing this in my game, especially since treasure while adventuring is hard to come by in my universe (note that Conan never had a lot of money, and when he did get some, he usually spent it quickly, leaving him broke again--which means wealth is not easy to come by during the Hyborian Age).

Have any of you GMs out there played around with PC economics over the long term?

Of the two PCs in my game, one is a weaponsmith, while the other is a trapper. I'm thinking of skipping, say, three months or so, off camera, so to speak, than then rolling up some coin for the PCs.

If you've done this before in your games, I'd like to hear how it went. Any pitfalls I should watch out for? What worked well and didn't work so well?


EDIT: Besides, mini-games like this can be quite fun and great ways to move time forward in a campaign.

Nothing wrong with the idea, I think you can roleplay some of the daily events and seed plot-hooks throughout the operation. Also, long term, a good reputation in a business can pay dividends when you want to build a keep and join the aristocracy...

 

[HoboGod]

I play around with it every now and then, but I find it important to award role playing experience for every coin they earn. If they earn 1/10th the gold of a CR 1 encounter, they gain 1/10th the experience of a CR 1 encounter.

 

[Water Bob]

The money that a PC can make from their profession or craft skills is so small compared with what they can make in the field that it's no comparison.

I think you missed the part where I said, in my game, "...treasure while adventuring is hard to come by in my universe...."

For example, the PCs just finished an entire "dungeon", and from that they got a steel breastplate that needs to be fixed, a masterwork Battleaxe, and a couple other normal weapons (a mace, a dagger...etc), plus some clothes from the dead bodies (a leather girdle, a belt pouch, etc). This, and a total of 26 silver pieces.

That's it.

I don't run a Conan game with tons of treasure just sitting around for people to take it as happens in many D&D games. During the Hyborian Age, there are no dragons sitting around on hordes of coin. And, there are few Conan stories where the mighty Cimmerian has come into contact with large treasure hordes--the few times he does (the pastich Hall of the Dead comes to mind), something usually happens to spoil it.

Conan isn't a game where characters typically get rich. There's even a core game rule (that I don't always follow) that instructs the GM to keep PC wealth to a minium to keep the flavor of the universe.

So, in this universe, the PC might very well make more with their professions than they can adventuring.

For example, if a PC manages to kill one Orc, and he has no treasure on him at all, not a copper piece, not a backpack, bedroll, belt, pair of shoes or a dagger, just his weapons and armor, the PC can sell the studded leather armor and falchion for 50 gp.

I see this point, but you'd allow this at 50% value? That seems a bit high to me. I think 10-30% tops would be more likely, IF the PC found a buyer at all.

Did you just take half, or is there some D&D rule that guides you on this? If there's a rule, I'd be interested to read it.

And....this makes me thing that maybe a quick bargaining throw would be appropriate in selling goods.

If we score by Profession, he'll make 3 gp a week. That presumes 4 points in the skill (max for 1st level) and 2 points from Wisdom. If he only has one point of wisdom bonus, drop that to 2.5 gp a week.

Not according to the rule.

The character you describe is +7 on the dice. An average roll on a d20 is 10. This means the character will earn an average of 17 / 2 = 8.5 gp a week...and this without risking his life. That's 442 gp per year.

And, my characters are both craftsmen, not professionals thus their income is about double that of a professional of like ability.

So, a craftsman would make an average of 17 gp per week or 884 gp per year.





This would translate to about 442 sp per year for the professional, or 884 sp per year for the craftsman in the Conan game.

Therefore, even by the vanilla core rules in Conan (because adventuring isn't like a trip to the ATM), being a professional/craftsman is much more lucriative in my Conan game than it is in your D&D game.

There isn't a "you make this much per week" rule for Craft skills, but I'd probably use pretty much the same formula, as a shortcut.

There is such a rule in 3.5. In D&D, Craftsmen throw on their skill once per week to receive a number of gp that week equal to the total. For professions, the same is done, taking half the total to represent that week's income.

Nothing wrong with the idea, I think you can roleplay some of the daily events and seed plot-hooks throughout the operation. Also, long term, a good reputation in a business can pay dividends when you want to build a keep and join the aristocracy...

My characters are barbarians, members of a clan, in a village. There's a certain amount of socialism that goes on. I'm wondering how much I should decrease the normal rule on craftsmen/professional income to account for that shared with the clan.

 

[Walker N. Waistz]

Alzrius has a gret blog post on this subject here: The 1% of Pathfinder - Intelligence Check

 

[Samloyal23]

I think you missed the part where I said, in my game, "...treasure while adventuring is hard to come by in my universe...."

For example, the PCs just finished an entire "dungeon", and from that they got a steel breastplate that needs to be fixed, a masterwork Battleaxe, and a couple other normal weapons (a mace, a dagger...etc), plus some clothes from the dead bodies (a leather girdle, a belt pouch, etc). This, and a total of 26 silver pieces.

That's it.

I don't run a Conan game with tons of treasure just sitting around for people to take it as happens in many D&D games. During the Hyborian Age, there are no dragons sitting around on hordes of coin. And, there are few Conan stories where the mighty Cimmerian has come into contact with large treasure hordes--the few times he does (the pastich Hall of the Dead comes to mind), something usually happens to spoil it.

Conan isn't a game where characters typically get rich. There's even a core game rule (that I don't always follow) that instructs the GM to keep PC wealth to a minium to keep the flavor of the universe.

So, in this universe, the PC might very well make more with their professions than they can adventuring.







I see this point, but you'd allow this at 50% value? That seems a bit high to me. I think 10-30% tops would be more likely, IF the PC found a buyer at all.

Did you just take half, or is there some D&D rule that guides you on this? If there's a rule, I'd be interested to read it.

And....this makes me thing that maybe a quick bargaining throw would be appropriate in selling goods.







Not according to the rule.

The character you describe is +7 on the dice. An average roll on a d20 is 10. This means the character will earn an average of 17 / 2 = 8.5 gp a week...and this without risking his life. That's 442 gp per year.

And, my characters are both craftsmen, not professionals thus their income is about double that of a professional of like ability.

So, a craftsman would make an average of 17 gp per week or 884 gp per year.





This would translate to about 442 sp per year for the professional, or 884 sp per year for the craftsman in the Conan game.

Therefore, even by the vanilla core rules in Conan (because adventuring isn't like a trip to the ATM), being a professional/craftsman is much more lucriative in my Conan game than it is in your D&D game.







There is such a rule in 3.5. In D&D, Craftsmen throw on their skill once per week to receive a number of gp that week equal to the total. For professions, the same is done, taking half the total to represent that week's income.







My characters are barbarians, members of a clan, in a village. There's a certain amount of socialism that goes on. I'm wondering how much I should decrease the normal rule on craftsmen/professional income to account for that shared with the clan.

The money is secondary, there to keep you fed and equipped until you go on your next adventure. But having a reputation as a master craftsman can get you a lot of respect. That's worth more than any dragon's hoard...

 

[Water Bob]

The money is secondary, there to keep you fed and equipped until you go on your next adventure. But having a reputation as a master craftsman can get you a lot of respect. That's worth more than any dragon's hoard...

Becoming a master craftsman requires skill points, lots of 'em, that won't go into adventuring skills, plus Feats.

Still, I like the idea of the players taking care of their characters' professions. In order to do that, there needs to be a tangible reward. They'll still adventure, because that's what the game is about. But, if they learn that they can make more by doing their profession, well, that will be cool.

And, the Conan RPG does have a Reputation mechanic.

 

[Samloyal23]

Becoming a master craftsman requires skill points, lots of 'em, that won't go into adventuring skills, plus Feats.

Still, I like the idea of the players taking care of their characters' professions. In order to do that, there needs to be a tangible reward. They'll still adventure, because that's what the game is about. But, if they learn that they can make more by doing their profession, well, that will be cool.

And, the Conan RPG does have a Reputation mechanic.

Don't think of those skill points being taken away from adventure, that is a false dichotomy. Accomplishing a goal, like making a treasure known to all Hyboria, can be an adventure in itself. You can use it as a reason for an assortment of quests, parlay your reputation into a source for adventure...