pc's and the money

[Rystil Arden]

Unless, of course, it's someone trying to maintain a relative monopoly - an "honest" monopoly over a wide area, when faced with a competitor that is trying to underbid them will underbid the competetor - into bankruptcy, by taking a loss on the product/service. And it can afford to - it's been in place for a long time, has big reserves because of it, AND can get support from other monopolized regions, if need be. More, it may very well have solid vertical integration as well (say the church has it's own mines and miners, and so gets Diamonds for the materials cost to "craft" items, as under the craft skill, it can fund that 25,000 gp in diamonds True Ressurection for 8333 gp, 3 sp, 3 cp). However, a week after the competetor is out of buisiness (when comrades have fallen, and can now take advantage of the "sale" they inspired), the monopoly will be back to buisiness as usual. And that's a NICE monopoly. The mean ones also hire thugs, assasins, thieves, and con men; they make whisper campaigns for character assasination; bribe governmental officials to run rigged inspections or change laws to make smaller versions impossible; et cetera.

That's silly. Then the PCs would just set up shop to provoke a responsive lowering of prices when they want the services.

 

[Jack Simth]

That's silly. Then the PCs would just set up shop to provoke a responsive lowering of prices when they want the services.

1) Monopoly response is not instant - it takes a bit of time before a large organization reacts - you will have set up shop for weeks to months before someone high enough up to give the squash orders hears about your shop enough to squash it.
2) You really think a monopoly is going to offer it's services to it's newest competitors (or that it wouldn't research who it's new competitors are)? "Well, let's see... due the the recent sale, demand has gone way up, and I won't have any slots prepared for that spell you want for at least... six months." Six (game) months later... "All right that will be ... let's see ... 9th level spell, caster level 17, 25,000 gp in materials ... 26,530 gp; standard fee. Oh, sorry, the sale ended yesterday; didn't you know?"

 

[Rystil Arden]

1) Monopoly response is not instant - it takes a bit of time before a large organization reacts - you will have set up shop for weeks to months before someone high enough up to give the squash orders hears about your shop enough to squash it.
2) You really think a monopoly is going to offer it's services to it's newest competitors (or that it wouldn't research who it's new competitors are)? "Well, let's see... due the the recent sale, demand has gone way up, and I won't have any slots prepared for that spell you want for at least... six months." Six (game) months later... "All right that will be ... let's see ... 9th level spell, caster level 17, 25,000 gp in materials ... 26,530 gp; standard fee. Oh, sorry, the sale ended yesterday; didn't you know?"

As for (1), then the PCs will probably be able to make the slight cash that they wanted before the monopoly kicks in.

And for (2), the PC cleric alone, can be their competitor. That shouldn't stop them from raising some other party member, unless they were extremely evil.

IMC, this isn't an issue because the PCs refuse to apply for citisenship in any of the countries, as they don't want to pay yearly income taxes, so any attempt to disrupt the business of local taxpaying mages is illegal.

 

[KarinsDad]

what do you do when a players want to stay in a city taking money selling his teleport service or when the cleric group sell his services to ressuscitate other adventurers? how much money do you let then win? and how much times?

Actually, I just let the Laws of Supply and Demand take over.

I do the same thing with goods and services that the PCs want to purchase (as opposed to want to sell).

For example, the PCs in a recent campaign needed pearls to Identify items. So, they went on an almost daily basis to the local jeweler asking if he had pearls. The chances were low, so the jeweler said "Not today" nearly every day for several weeks. Then one day, I made the roll and the jeweler said "I got a new shipment in. I have 30 pearls. How many do you want?". The PCs took most of them (26 I think at 100 GP a pop and that took up most of their ready coin) simply because they suspected that if they did not, he might sell the rest of them and it might be many more weeks before more pearls were again available (it was in fairly far inland city in this case).

Do the same thing with the PC goods and services.

PC: day one "Does anyone come in to purchase our goods and/or services today?"
DM: rolls dice "No, but 3 little old ladies and a stevedore come in to see what you have. All of them are window shopping though."
PC: day two "Does anyone come in to purchase our goods and/or services today?"
DM: rolls dice "No, in fact, nobody comes into the shop at all today."
PC: day three "Does anyone come in to purchase our goods and/or services today?"
DM: rolls dice "No, but a gnome comes in asking if you have the lost Heirloom of Drasada."

Remember, not everyone has 1000 GP or more to buy magical goods or services. In fact, 99% of the population cannot afford such things and the other 1% has their own contacts already and/or also only make such purchases a few times a year at most (if that often), even in a city.

Now, I would carefully explain this to the players before they actually try to set up shop. One possibility is for the PCs to hire someone as an intermediary broker. This NPC sets up shop for the PCs and when customers come in, he sells the goods or services for the PCs. Course, if it is a spell that needs casting, he will have to inform the PCs that a client is available and they will have to stop adventuring in order to come back and cast the spell.

The odds would be slim though. On a D20, I would require something like:

Potion: 18+ on first roll, spell level * 5 or higher on second roll.
Cast spell: 19+ on first roll, spell level * 2 or higher on second roll.
Scroll: 20 on first roll, spell level * 3 or higher on second roll.
Craft other item: 20 on first roll, caster level or higher on second roll.

every single day. If the roll is made, a customer comes in requesting the item or spell. This would be a single roll, so if a 20 is rolled, I would roll randomly to see if the customer wants a potion, scroll, spell, or item. If so, I would then roll to determine the level of the good or service. So some days, a customer comes in wanting a 7th level spell cast and the PCs are too low level to do that.

And actually, I would probably set up a chart for the second roll so that the odds of lower level spells/items are requested at a higher percentage chance for the second rolls (e.g. 20% chance first level, 15% chance levels two and three, 10% chance levels four through seven, 5% chance levels eight and nine).

The PCs might manage to sell a potion once per week and sell an item/spell once per month this way. Maybe. I would still have them go on quests to gather the supplies needed to craft any item though (even scrolls and potions).

This allows them to be successful doing this, but not overly successful. Plus, it forces them to adventure, just to keep their business running.

PS. Do not forget expenses of running a business. For example, leasing of the shop both front area for customers and possibly back area for crafting goods (if they do more than just sell spells), paying the NPC broker, storing goods and materials, advertising, protection costs against thieves and vandals, including making sure the NPC broker is trustworthy, etc.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Wow... I wouldn't want to play with some of you as my DM. I like to let players have a chance of success when trying something instead of outright hozing them. First responses seem to be "How can I get him to stop?" Come on, people, let the player make some money! Make it take time, sure. Most of the requests will be for low level spells, also. But, unless there's a history of heavy-handed government or economy controlling NPCs, then a lot of this stuff is simply coming into being to stop the PCs from running a (to me legitimate) business.

 

[Space Coyote]

Doesnt the Players Handbook have a standardized listing cost for casting spells?

10gp x spell level x caster level + (5gp x XP point cost).

It's in the Equipment section under "Spellcasting and Services"

Editted to add: Wouldn't a Player character get to charge the same amount?

 

[Shin Okada]

Wow... I wouldn't want to play with some of you as my DM. I like to let players have a chance of success when trying something instead of outright hozing them. First responses seem to be "How can I get him to stop?" Come on, people, let the player make some money! Make it take time, sure. Most of the requests will be for low level spells, also. But, unless there's a history of heavy-handed government or economy controlling NPCs, then a lot of this stuff is simply coming into being to stop the PCs from running a (to me legitimate) business.

That kind of play is good when all (or most of ) the players agree with it. If only one (or few) of players in a group try to give more money to his PC than other PCs while other players don't want to play such kind of "economic simulation", I stop it and let them just play adventures. If the entire group likely to enjoy such out-of-adventure money games, I will let them do it.

 

[KarinsDad]

That kind of play is good when all (or most of ) the players agree with it. If only one (or few) of players in a group try to give more money to his PC than other PCs while other players don't want to play such kind of "economic simulation", I stop it and let them just play adventures. If the entire group likely to enjoy such out-of-adventure money games, I will let them do it.

Agreed. You want to play a greengrocer in a FRPG, fine. The rest of the group goes adventuring and since nothing is happening at your pricey magic spell/item store, we will not be roleplaying there right now.

If you want to play a greengrocer PC, get yourself an NPC broker and the PC should go adventuring with the rest of the group. IMO.

 

[werk]

what do you do when a players want to stay in a city taking money selling his teleport service or when the cleric group sell his services to ressuscitate other adventurers? how much money do you let then win? and how much times?

I played in a high-fantasy setting where this was a mode of transporting goods. You would build a teleport room and could effectively teleport to any other teleport room that you had access to. It allowed them to teleport above the weight allowance as everything in the room was teleported, but it was a fairly elaborate system with scrying and all that to avoid mishaps.

In a setting like that, the characters wouldn't be able to open their own business, because they'd get their knees broken, but if a setting where you are the only one trying to sell the service, I'd let them do it on the condition that it is party money since it is taking up game time. I'd also have them go over how they do the teleport. Where do they teleport the stuff to? anywhere? that'll cause problems. Do they teleport people or just goods? What happens if they teleport a million gp worth of diamonds into a volcano by mistake? I'd say this is less same than airtravel is today, so there is a lot of risk associated. And I'd tax them (heavily) unless the party governs the area.

For rez, I'd say the god or church puts a stop to that. Like the god will only rez followers of the god and won't allow the cleric to charge or all proceeds go directly to the church.

It really depends on the setting and conditions for me, but arcane=sure, divine=only if the god goes for that sort of thing.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I have actually had NPCs approach the PCs for healing, trying to commission items, and occasional spells. I have twice a year fairs where PCs can pay for a booth, make a few extra scrolls or potions and sell them. If the players tryed to set up a shop to do this, there would be several weeks between meaningful sales - but there would be some money coming in. Adventuring is normall more lucrative.