pc's and the money

[moritheil]

Right, but there are expenses too. So for example, in the above cleric res problem, I would rule that he charged the going rate as normal for priests in that area - only, by the rules of his faith, all the profit went to church funds. He won't be short any money (he's allowed to deduct material component costs), but he won't gain any money either - he'll just be improving the average person's impression of his church.

Wizards are a little different, not being beholden to people. I don't see anything wrong with letting them cast a little on the side, but there are huge disadvantages to doing so that are entirely non-economic. For one, you have to stay in the same place and avertise in order to get business. Second, you have to keep at it for a long time in order to be trusted with more expensive or discreet business. Your average adventuring party has a slew of skeletons in their closet, and this makes it very easy for their pasts to catch up with them. Either their character backgrounds or the recurring NPC villans should provide a lot of grist for such an adventure.

I wouldn't discourage it; in fact, I would think it wonderful if the PCs in my party did this. They have an artificer/blacksmith among their number. It would be very realistic. Of course, since they're neutral/good aligned, and they care about saving their own skin at least minimally, it will only take one or two sessions of fireball-slinging mages destroying entire towns and slaying hundreds or thousands of incidental bystanders to get at them to make them realize it isn't really a good idea to stick around in one place if you have enemies.

Doesnt the Players Handbook have a standardized listing cost for casting spells?

10gp x spell level x caster level + (5gp x XP point cost).

It's in the Equipment section under "Spellcasting and Services"

Editted to add: Wouldn't a Player character get to charge the same amount?

 

[RonYon]

The best games I have played have centered on building empires, financial and otherwise.

In one I was a 1730s century style lawyer/necromancer dandy, teamed up with a cleric of Commerce, his legbreaking rouge/duelist, a legally empowered sorcerous bounty hunter we had crossed paths with, and my undead manservant wizard. We had come to a booming town to establish a printing press, only to find our primary investor kidnapped. Well, in order to make money yah gotta spend money-and break heads. The funny thing was that we kept our noses clean, and yet we had plenty of adventure. Think Sherlock Holmes, and Doc Watson, gentalmen dealing harshly with ruffians.Many sessions involved me interviewing the (dead) criminals asuring them a good burial, help for thier families and vengance on thier cowardly associates, in return for some decent intel. We never made it to the point of having a cash cow-but man it was fun.

The other campain was very standard D20, but we were set up as part of a mercenary army from the start. Being the PCs, we rose in rank tio the point that we ran the town that we had built in the conquered territory. What fun, but look out ! Giants invade, looking for slaves, evil undead spread curses amongst the prostitutes of the city, hungry nomads on dire boar harass our convoys,the head of the new empire comes to live in town, bringing all the assasins with him, our Aliensts pet monsters get loose,Giant inteligent vermin eat our live stock-we sold every spell in every slot of every caster in a catser heavy party for months on end, making mad cash even after over head. It mattered not, so great were the challenges and costs in defending this town, our investment. Sure, our wizard had great items, but his advancement sucked. Sure, the fighter was the burgermister, the man in charge. His wisdom and char left something to be desired, and we never knew for sure just how much cash his assistant skimmed off the top.Besides, he was all ways called off to lead troops aginst a new threat, no time to enjoy... When we did take time to do personal quests, things at the town always got screwed up, and eventually, after a few years in away in a time shifting waste, we came back to find the town renamed, and our positions there lost, they gave us a handsome pay off, mostly cause they knew they had better, but the focus of the group was lost...

Look, making money is fun, and and mental. Dont let some of the posters here ruin good fun for you and your players. Find something to do, like a merchant marine campaign, and the adventure will follow. As a DM, isnt easier to poke hole in the players plans than make fool proof plans of your own?

 

[Bront]

The cleric is easy. Assuming there is a church of his god in the town, then he would have to do it within the framework of the church in general. If not, you might want to "remind" him that part of what the price of the survice is for is a tithe to the god. Let him keep a portion of it, but not a large percentage. Otherwise, what he is doing is reasonable, but you can assume that he is preocupied for most of the day.

As for the mage, if there is a wizard conclave/tower/orgaization, he'll probably have to answer to them for selling services (like a cleric with his church), if what he is selling is even saleable. And, in a town that is not that large, magic may be looked upon suspiciously (not everyone in every town treats magic as if it were an every day occurance), or there may be other issues as well.

For either class, to peddle abilities will need to find a (legitimate?) place to do so, so it might take him some time, and perhaps a few skill roles to setup and sell his wares (Diplomacy, sense motive, gather information, maybe a few others are relivent). Plus, with actualy providing the service, it will take some time, perhaps most if not all the day, and still may not prove fruitful.

Plus, you can't always find people able to pay exhorbitant prices, since many commoners don't see more than a few hundred gold a year.

However, don't prevent them either, especialy if they're creative (Elminster's Dry Cleaning could be an interesting side business using Prestidigitation, hehe). There is no reason they can't sell their skill for at least a few gold, just like a fighter could work as a guard or a labor hand, or a bard can perform, etc.

Plus, if you realy want to "Discourage" this, either give them something to do in town, or provide the remaining party members with some interesting random encounters (everything from bandits to interesting locals).

If they're high enough level to cast resurect and teleport though and are still bumming around for loose change (outside of perhaps an RP moment, some bards never pass up a gig), then either the party is a bit greedy, or they need to find more lucritive adventures.

 

[moritheil]

Look, making money is fun, and and mental. Dont let some of the posters here ruin good fun for you and your players. Find something to do, like a merchant marine campaign, and the adventure will follow. As a DM, isnt easier to poke hole in the players plans than make fool proof plans of your own?

It's fun, but not for every group. I know some players would whine that they were there to RP or kill things, not play Monopoly.

As a DM, I never make fool proof plans, so I don't understand your question. If I did make fool proof plans, I would slay every single player that I ran adventures for. That wouldn't be very fun.

I do, however, attempt to simulate a world.

 

[KarinsDad]

It's fun, but not for every group. I know some players would whine that they were there to RP or kill things, not play Monopoly.

Precisely.

I do, however, attempt to simulate a world.

Agreed. Part of simulating a world in a setting of the PCs running a town is that if a lot of bad things happen in that town, two things should happen:

1) Many NPCs should leave. Would you stay in a place where giants and undead attacked, and plagues hit, and thieves try to take over?

2) Eventually, the town should get a reputation as one not to mess with. Well defended places are not the ones that are attacked, regardless of whether PCs are there or not. Cause and effect. There is a bit of "warping of the laws of probability" around PCs, just because they are PCs. But as a DM, I would not go overboard with it. A PC run town (if run well) should eventually become a place of safety and security, whereas the adventures should start occurring further and further from "home".

 

[helium3]

what do you do when a players want to stay in a city taking money selling his teleport service or when the cleric group sell his services to ressuscitate other adventurers? how much money do you let then win? and how much times?

There are a couple of ways to deal with this. One solution is the one that everyone has already mentioned, in that the competition gets a little annoyed with the PC's an resorts to various measures to put him/her out of business.

Another solution is to simply cut down on the demand for services rendered. Yeah, the PC can make money teleporting people or casting various clerical spells, but the cost for said services means that few are willing or able to pay for them. Thus, they just don't make that much money over time.

A third solution, and my personal favorite, is to simply make it a real pain in the behind to go into the "spell-casting business." Perhaps there are forms and permits that need to be filled out. Perhaps insurance is needed. Perhaps taxes need to be paid and the forumlae for figuring out how much is owed is a real hassle. Spend a session or two eating up the rest of the group's game-time dealing with the day-to-day details of running a business for one PC. Insist that the PC spend an hour haggling with a magic shop owner over the cost of bulk-quantities of spell components. Refuse to deal with the dreadfully boring details in any situation but prime gaming time.

Or you could simply say "While a fully rational world would permit your character to use its spell casting abilities to make money through commercial enterprise, this behavior is completely at odds with what the role-playing experience is generally considered to be "all about." Therefore, I am simply not allowing your character to do this, even though there is no "rational" reason for why it could not happen. If you want to be in an RPG that is all about running a business, please find a group that is running "Wall Street : The Role Playing Game."

 

[RonYon]

It's fun, but not for every group. I know some players would whine that they were there to RP or kill things, not play Monopoly.

As a DM, I never make fool proof plans, so I don't understand your question. If I did make fool proof plans, I would slay every single player that I ran adventures for. That wouldn't be very fun.

I do, however, attempt to simulate a world.

Perhaps using "foolproof" was counterproductive, but it was just to indicate that anytime a PC has a "foolproof" get rich scheme, well, a GM should be happy to test it for them.Not by heavy handedness but simply by natrual consequence.
As for the killing of things and the RP, thats what we did mostly, we just had slightly differnt motives.

 

[RonYon]

Precisely.



Agreed. Part of simulating a world in a setting of the PCs running a town is that if a lot of bad things happen in that town, two things should happen:

1) Many NPCs should leave. Would you stay in a place where giants and undead attacked, and plagues hit, and thieves try to take over?

2) Eventually, the town should get a reputation as one not to mess with. Well defended places are not the ones that are attacked, regardless of whether PCs are there or not. Cause and effect. There is a bit of "warping of the laws of probability" around PCs, just because they are PCs. But as a DM, I would not go overboard with it. A PC run town (if run well) should eventually become a place of safety and security, whereas the adventures should start occurring further and further from "home".

1. They did, but for most of the adventures the town was a boom town-some hopeful soul would take their place. Also, It had become a major religious center, and a good place to be a feeloader. One of the PCs spent most of her cash on her temple to her elf god and on housing/feeding the poor. Even the less savory amonst us recognized the utility of having abunch of chaotic good clerics around, and would some times contribute.
Things settled down after a while and...
2. Well there was a moat with a twisted/nuetral water demigoddess living in it. She could be diplomized into aiding in the defence, but mostly we just gave her a wide birth-never knew what she might do...Ther were also legions of fanaitcal dragon men(think of the legends about dragons teeth), and the various Leadrship gained Cohorts and Followers. So eventually ,no one bothered us unless they had a good reason. The giants had discovered that we were hidding a valuable artifact, the undead menace was one we had helped create, you get the idea. Still, we did have to go looking for trouble, and or/ there where months and years between adventures. When we disappeared for two plus years, the locals where ok without us, and they didnt want us and our troubles back in town...

Ok, its not for everyone, so if you want a more traditional a campaign, I second Bronts suggestions, something for everyone...

 

[moritheil]

Perhaps using "foolproof" was counterproductive, but it was just to indicate that anytime a PC has a "foolproof" get rich scheme, well, a GM should be happy to test it for them.Not by heavy handedness but simply by natrual consequence.
As for the killing of things and the RP, thats what we did mostly, we just had slightly differnt motives.

As noted earlier, I don't bother trying to stop PCs from doing such things - I simply note consequences of their behavior.

I wouldn't discourage it; in fact, I would think it wonderful if the PCs in my party did this. They have an artificer/blacksmith among their number. It would be very realistic. Of course, since they're neutral/good aligned, and they care about saving their own skin at least minimally, it will only take one or two sessions of fireball-slinging mages destroying entire towns and slaying hundreds or thousands of incidental bystanders to get at them to make them realize it isn't really a good idea to stick around in one place if you have enemies.

I don't think that's heavy handed, given that a party of 10-12 people with troubled pasts and lots of unfinished business has a ton of people out to get them. I would award treasure and exp as normal, of course, provided that they slew the enemies in a manner that did not destroy the loot. Bonus exp for good RP in heroically confronting the rampaging mage and/or saving small children while the city burns.

Do you find something heavy handed about having "real world" style consequences catch up to a party?

 

[Sigurd]

Fairly Consider player background\reputation

If the players are heroes and they can offer a valuable service there is no reason they wouldn't attract people who want to help them run their affairs and good business.

As heroes they will still be expected to pay their taxes, support their churches, help with the defense of the city, maybe throw some money at the library.....
They will also have a lot of public support that will, to some extent, shield them from theives guilds & assassins guilds. Fewer people pissed off at them and more reason for the average joe to help them out.

Many players are really money grubbing oportunists - said with fondness. They can set up shop with difficulty. They may be less popular the longer they stay. They may be leached for their money by a town that really doesn't want them. They may have steps to take to gain the town's trust.

If players have benifitted from a larger organization the Church, Wizard School, Fighters guild is going to be more happy with a cut. Rich players will be expected to pay higher fees. Do jobs for free or some such. They can make moeny but they will have to repay favours they used getting training on their way up.