PCs changing the campaign world

[dreaded_beast]

How do you handle PCs changing aspects of your campaign world?

For example, my PCs have taken to exploring the sewers of Tilverton on an almost nightly basis. According to the old 2nd Ed. Forgotten Realms Adventures hard back book, there is a faction of trolls and ghouls that fight for control of the sewers.

While I have not actually come up with the exact amount of trolls and ghouls in the sewers, there may soon come a time when my players want to "rid" the sewers of the trolls and ghouls. I have not come up with an exact number of trolls and ghouls, but I guess they would consist of thinking up the exact amount of trolls/ghouls and having the PCs explore the sewers and fight them until either them or all the monsters are dead.

Also, while looking at the 3rd Ed. Lords of Darkness book, I noticed that many of the Evil Organizations give a number of members, such as Fire Knives have 47 or something like that. Anyways, do you keep track of this number when PCs kill members of that organization? Once they kill all the members from that organization, is it gone and dead? Of course the DM can always bring it back, but do you keep them "dead" to give the PCs a sense of being able to affect the campaign world?

I guess I'm wondering how you handle PCs changing "canon" aspects of the campaign world in addition to PC actions causing a large change within an established campaign setting, such as FR.

 

[Mystery Man]

I guess I'm wondering how you handle PCs changing "canon" aspects of the campaign world in addition to PC actions causing a large change within an established campaign setting, such as FR.

Isn't that what they're supposed to do? Who cares what they do in your campaign, it's separate from the novels. Or at least its supposed to be. Don't get so hung up on what's canon. Let them storm Zhentil keep and take out Fzoul if they think they can, it's yours and their world to do that.

 

[Steel_Wind]

I believe it is absolutely essential to let your players do this, and more importantly, it is absolutely essential for your players to know that they can.

They are not playing someone else's FR. They are playing *your* FR. To some extent, they are even playing in *their* FR as well.

Generally speaking, you would not let one of your players be DM. Don't let an author be your DM either. That's worse - not better. Indeed, if the players get the feeling they cannot have a measureable effect on the world or the course of history, they will come to hate FR - and rightly so.

When the players can change the world, by all means let em.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Generallly in my campaigns, unless the PCs go on a directed seek and destroy mission against a group like the aforementioned Fire Knives, they will probably not kill members of the organization quickly enough to prevent the organization from refilling their ranks.

However, if I may reccomend the excellent Thieve's World books, you'll see what happens when writers mess around with other writers' characters. Thus, not only are the stories a good read, but the metaconcept of the shared world is, in a sense, the very kind of thing you're talking about. That is, your NPCs are being messed around with by other "writers"- the players.

And the results can be marvelous! I ran a campaign where I let the table talk guide my adventure plans. The players thought they were reading my mind when I was actually picking their brains.

 

[Agamemnon]

Agreed. If the players can't change canon, then they're liable to get frustrated. I'd call canon a starting point, nothing more. Beyond that, you can and quite possibly should do whatever you like.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

How do you handle PCs changing aspects of your campaign world?

I let them.

And then later on, when they're not around, I grin like a fiend, swear a little bit, think about all the other things that will change as a result of what they did, and then, finally, I think to myself "I AM THE COOLEST PERSON WHO EVER RAN A GAME AND MY PLAYERS F-CKING ROCK." Because it's true. If the PCs are setting out to change the campaign world, that's a sign that the players are really getting invested in the game, and that means that I'm cool and they rock. It's just that simple.

Because, like Steel_Wind correctly points out, they're not playing in the Forgotten Realms, they're playing in your Forgotten Realms. You're the one who paid for it, you're the one running it, you are the one who OWNS it. It's yours. Use it accordingly.

And like most people have already said, it sucks when a GM doesn't let player characters change anything. Particularly in D&D, where after a while PCs can become amazingly powerful and (supposedly) influential figures...if they try to make any changes and run into a GM-imposed "thou shalt not defile the canon" wall, they'll give up. They'll know that nothing their characters do will ever really count for anything.

--
besides, it's a big setting, it's crazy to try and keep all of it off-limits
ryan

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Who want to play in a world they have absolutely no impact or influence on?

Rejoice in the fact that your players are involved; canon can go hang. The WOTC setting police aren't going to shut your game down because it's no longer canon. Heck, if you go by 3E FR canon, Tilverton doesn't even exist (one of the most idiotic events the FR writers have pulled lately, IMO).

 

[Numion]

Who want to play in a world they have absolutely no impact or influence on?

I'd bet that quite a lot of people. Some players in my group for example aren't intrested in changing the world, but rather in gaining personal power. That's what they seem to enjoy, so I try to cater to them as well as those who do.

It is possible to run D&D enjoyably in a way where the world is in the background and the episodic adventures are in the forefront. The planes for example provide a lot of one shot worlds, where the impact might not be important or won't be witnessed by the PCs anyway, since they've already returned to their own plane.

 

[molonel]

So your players want to change the world in some fashion? Kick ass. You are one of the few, the proud, the lucky DMs who has to deal with players who want to really DO something. As other people have already lucidly addressed, canon is a starting point. If you've got an evil party that wants to off Elminster and Drizzt, for God's sake, PLEASE let them do it. Maybe I won't have to see any more dark elf novels on the shelves when I'm browsing books anymore.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

That is the exact opposite of the operating philosophy of most of the DMs with whom I have gamed.

For every individual in an evil organization the PCs killed, the DMs automatically add another. If the PCs killed a name member of the evil organization, then the DM would have the village raised, or cloned or something similar. The players were never able to hamper, impair or disable the operations of the evil organization.

I am not defending this practice. I am just writing to say, in my experience, this is what most DMs do. dreaded_beast himself seems vexed by the very notion of the PC effecting any changes to the established setting. That, again in my experience, is typical.