PCs vs. DMPCs

[herrozerro]

I prefer the 4e way. I want an assassin? Ill just make an assassin, i dont worry about the class or whatever, just make an assassin.

 

[Lanefan]

All of my players understand that PCs are unique in the world and that there aren't legions of fighters, paladins, rogues, clerics and wizards populating the setting that all follow the PC class rules.

Now this is a design conceit I really dislike, that the PCs are the only adventurers around and that they are somehow special snowflakes in the game world....unless the game is so story-based that it might as well be a role-played novel and as a consequence PCs are not allowed to die/retire/leave.

If the PCs are the only adventurers going and half the party gets wiped out, how do you explain the replacement characters that show up? Sure, they're PCs now - but in hindsight they were out there all along! Think this through and presto, there's got to be other PC-style adventurers out there somewhere.

And some of them could (and, I would say, should) end up opposing the party at some point.

That said, in any edition party-vs.-party combats are the worst to run and take the longest to resolve. Still worth doing, though.

It's easier with simpler characters and-or editions - I can't imagine trying to run a 3e or 4e party-as-enemy with all the feats and powers etc. each character would have.

Lanefan

 

[Ahnehnois]

Why would an NPC wizard have a totally different power set from a PC wizard?

This is the real question. No way am I going to run a game with any kind of competitive balance as part of the rules-and then have the rules not apply the same way to everyone. There's no good reason. If you want NPCs run a certain way, the PCs should be run that way too.

NPC's were horrible to create in 3e. Especially beyond 5th or 6th level, you got into tons of magic items etc. Took forever if you wanted to make a party of evils.

A true statement, and one I see a lot, but a very misleading one. Sure, tacking on a bunch of fiddly little abilities and items to make an NPC is time-consuming sometimes excessively so. This is an indication that character creation rules are a problem, not that those rules aren't appropriate for NPCs. Too much work for not enough payoff.

 

[herrozerro]

1. There's no good reason. If you want NPCs run a certain way, the PCs should be run that way too.

2. A true statement, and one I see a lot, but a very misleading one. Sure, tacking on a bunch of fiddly little abilities and items to make an NPC is time-consuming sometimes excessively so. This is an indication that character creation rules are a problem, not that those rules aren't appropriate for NPCs. Too much work for not enough payoff.

1. This is just as arbitrary as saying there is no good reason for everyone to play by the same rules.

2. Its not misleading, its valid. In my opinion PCs should be more complex and more should go into them, players are going to be doing more of the building and its going to be spread out across a longer stretch of time. A player with a 20th level PC is going to have spent a lot of time on that pc with creation but it'll be spread out across the campaign, but if npcs are built the same way you'd have to spend all that time constantly.

So yes the dilemma is with character creation, if you are keeping all characters under the same rules. if character creation is too simple then its great for dms but sucks for players wanting more. If it's too complex then it's the opposite.

The truth is that the burden of work is unbalanced a dm will create more npcs or creatures than any player ever will. It just makes sense to have a system that acknowledges it.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The solution is simple. Don't have PC creation rules that are a PITA and NPCs are easy.

In B/X or AD&D an NPC party can be detailed in a very short time.

 

[steeldragons]

The solution is simple. Don't have PC creation rules that are a PITA and NPCs are easy.

In B/X or AD&D an NPC party can be detailed in a very short time.

Tru dis.

[Anyone else severely lamenting the lack of the XP button?!?! Is the 5e forum REALLY pulling so much server space?! I wouldn't be surprised if it were. Just lamenting the loss of XP above any other functions/things.]

 

[herrozerro]

The solution is simple. Don't have PC creation rules that are a PITA and NPCs are easy.

In B/X or AD&D an NPC party can be detailed in a very short time.

In my experience PC rules that are complex are fine, players in general like customization. It is really only a PITA when you need everybody to play by the exact same creation rules.