johnsemlak
First Post
Fenes 2 said:
I second that. While there's nothing anybody can do about scanned ESDs, new PDF products would me much easier to read off the computer if they were in single column format.
PDF Vs. Print [Slight Rant]
- Thread starter Darrin Drader
- Start date
I second that. While there's nothing anybody can do about scanned ESDs, new PDF products would me much easier to read off the computer if they were in single column format.
The discussion of pdfs should not be limited to, "They were intended to be printed, so be quiet and print them." The publisher's intent is secondary in importance to how the customers actually use them.
The quandry facing pdf publishing seems to me to be pretty simple - computer screens are not 8.5" by 11". The layout that works in traditional printing simply isn't suited to current computer screens. Until they learn to give two copies of a text with every purchase (a print version and a screen version), there will always be conflicts between the folks who want to print them and those who want them for computer use.
edit:
Single column format has a distinct problem - the lines are too long for extended reading or skimming. The eye tends to lose track on long lines, makign them difficult to work with. The real issue isn't with having multiple columns. It's with having those columns taller than the screen.
The quandry facing pdf publishing seems to me to be pretty simple - computer screens are not 8.5" by 11". The layout that works in traditional printing simply isn't suited to current computer screens. Until they learn to give two copies of a text with every purchase (a print version and a screen version), there will always be conflicts between the folks who want to print them and those who want them for computer use.
edit:
Single column format has a distinct problem - the lines are too long for extended reading or skimming. The eye tends to lose track on long lines, makign them difficult to work with. The real issue isn't with having multiple columns. It's with having those columns taller than the screen.
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The irony is that if you use a single column format, it looks unprofessional. A PDF that is single column looks like it was laid out by a 10 year old. It is precisely because publishers know that people are irrational that the have to do irrational things with products. If it looks cheap, people will think that it is cheap.
I think that it is becoming common, if not standard, practice to include both Screen and Printer-Friendly versions in the zip files. Although there is some variation in the degree of "printer friendliness" from publisher to publisher.
Really what it comes down to is that you are purchasing the intellectual property and not a physical item. That is difficult for some people to accept, so you still have to pretend that you are publishing a "book" to try to meet and satisfy the customer's expectations.
A book like Everyone Else would be nearly as *useful* if it were just organized statblocks that could be cut and pasted into your campaign notes and never printed out. The layout would be more functional if it were single column, one entry per page with no graphics anywhere. But people don't base their decisions on usefulness and function alone so repeat business will be lost if you take those as your only considerations.
Publishers are really caught between a rock and a hard-place on this one. It isn't really worth getting upset about.
Cheers.
I think that it is becoming common, if not standard, practice to include both Screen and Printer-Friendly versions in the zip files. Although there is some variation in the degree of "printer friendliness" from publisher to publisher.
Really what it comes down to is that you are purchasing the intellectual property and not a physical item. That is difficult for some people to accept, so you still have to pretend that you are publishing a "book" to try to meet and satisfy the customer's expectations.
A book like Everyone Else would be nearly as *useful* if it were just organized statblocks that could be cut and pasted into your campaign notes and never printed out. The layout would be more functional if it were single column, one entry per page with no graphics anywhere. But people don't base their decisions on usefulness and function alone so repeat business will be lost if you take those as your only considerations.
Publishers are really caught between a rock and a hard-place on this one. It isn't really worth getting upset about.
Cheers.
Atma said:
That's not entirely true. I use an HP Deskjet 990Cse, far from being a top end inkjet these days. Using crap copy paper and setting the printer to draft mode, the text from the inkjet makes the text from a store bought book look grey and none of the PDFs I've printed and used at the gaming tables have bled. You can pick up a box of Great White paper at Staples really cheap and that paper looks good. Purchasing the equipment for plastic spiral binding is also very inexpensive. I think I payed $20 for the first "machine" I bought. You can put together decent printed PDF books for gaming at $1-$2 a book.
Printing and binding costs for 32 pages
Ink .04 X 32 = $1.28
Paper .0066 X 16 = .1
Plastic binding = .07
Or
Twin loop .24
Total Cost $1.45 or $1.62
[edited to included actual costs]
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Walter_J said:
Wow, that is pretty cheap. I think you are realistically looking at .25 a page if there is color, or about .10-.15 for B&W. This is if you buy HP cartridges, refills would be a different story(IE cheaper). On campus our Textronix Phasers print color around .06 a page and they are doing it at cost for ink and paper.
Gariig
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
The best example I can think of is the Malhavoc press Books of Eldritch Might. I bought the pdf's first, then later went on to buy the print copy of each.
There is simply no question about it. The print copies are in all ways superior. There is no way I could reproduce the result of the print copy with printing and binding the pdf. The decrease in quality would be extraordinary. There is no way to achieve with pdf printing and Kinko's-type binding that level of gloss cover and back, the vitality of the colors, or the stability provided by the press and binding. And if you could, the cost and time would be way more than the cost and time of just buying the book. Mass printing and binding gets a volumn discount that amateurs simply cannot achieve.
There is simply no question about it. The print copies are in all ways superior. There is no way I could reproduce the result of the print copy with printing and binding the pdf. The decrease in quality would be extraordinary. There is no way to achieve with pdf printing and Kinko's-type binding that level of gloss cover and back, the vitality of the colors, or the stability provided by the press and binding. And if you could, the cost and time would be way more than the cost and time of just buying the book. Mass printing and binding gets a volumn discount that amateurs simply cannot achieve.
arwink
Clockwork Golem
I'm in the minority, but on the whole I prefer PDF for anything that isn't a core rule-book or a world-book of some description. The reason - it's easier to cut and paste. Take something like the splat-books. On the whole, I only ever need perhaps a dozen PrC from the entire collection on any given day. I allow perhaps half the spells. One or two of the items, and the occasional spare rule. On the whole, maybe a single splat's worth of space, if that.
What do I carry around? Four full lenght sourcebooks that are mostly taking up space. Considering the scattered nature of the stuff I use, and the fact I don't game at home, I'm pretty sensitive to how much I have to cart around.
The best gaming purchases I've made are things like Ambients Lieber Equitas products, which allow me to print the PrC I need and ignore the rest. Siminlarly, the various Malhavoc e-books have proved a boon because I only print out the spells and items I allow.
What do I carry around? Four full lenght sourcebooks that are mostly taking up space. Considering the scattered nature of the stuff I use, and the fact I don't game at home, I'm pretty sensitive to how much I have to cart around.
The best gaming purchases I've made are things like Ambients Lieber Equitas products, which allow me to print the PrC I need and ignore the rest. Siminlarly, the various Malhavoc e-books have proved a boon because I only print out the spells and items I allow.
arwink said:
I think that this is the real strength of e-publishing. Especially with books that are light on flavor-text (i.e. things that aren't bathroom reading). You copy and paste the feats, prestige classes and other bits that you want to use in your current campaign into the Campaign Startup Notes and can email it to your players.
If I want to add my own background info to the prestige classes I can write that into the Campaign Notes and not have information split between two different locations.
The more a book is designed to be used for reference during prep-time, or to be customized before actual use, the stronger the PDF format is. The more the item leans towards leisure reading, the nicer it is to have a professionally bound book.
IMHO
Cheers.
Ravellion
serves Gnome Master
Michael Morris, you might be right about RTF when you include the images in the file (which I wasn't propagating), but PDF is about, what, three or four times the size when dealing with just text?
HTML might be a far better way to do it, IMHO. I might buy HTML products because they are simply screen friendly. PDFs simply aren't, at least not if they also meant to be possibly printed out. Ever. Show me one if you disagree with that statement.
So, not screen friendly, not printer friendly. The only thing it is friendly on is that it looks the same on every system. Wow. I am impressed.
Rav
HTML might be a far better way to do it, IMHO. I might buy HTML products because they are simply screen friendly. PDFs simply aren't, at least not if they also meant to be possibly printed out. Ever. Show me one if you disagree with that statement.
So, not screen friendly, not printer friendly. The only thing it is friendly on is that it looks the same on every system. Wow. I am impressed.
Rav
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