Scribble
First Post
Alternatively they might have thought with his proven leadership record, WoTC could become a much bigger brand by putting him in charge.
D&D 5E PDFs and Next
- Thread starter reanjr
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Alternatively they might have thought with his proven leadership record, WoTC could become a much bigger brand by putting him in charge.
You know, never is a long time. And while I can understand the desire to see pdf versions of their work for sale. Honestly, even classic novels go "out of print" on occasion. Demanding that *everything* be available in pdf before you'll buy a single product from them is pretty darned steep.
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
As far as I know, everything was available before (as far as game publications...I'm not talking about novels...they can deal with Amazon and e-readers for that). If it wasn't everything, then it was pretty darned close. But, it probably is more accurate for me to say I want everything that was available before they pulled pdf's, to be available again,...and all products that came after that (all 4E pubs)...before I buy another WotC product.
That may seem unreasonable to some, and that's as fair an opinion as mine. But I won't reward WotC for behavior that I think is wrong.
My reasoning is, I don't ever need another D&D product...I have all I'd ever need for a lifetime of playing - and then some (you can have my dice when you pry them from my cold, dead, uberpowerful Lich hands!
). I think that there are a very large amount of gamers who also feel they no longer need new D&D products. I think that the loss of such a large amount of gamers as current paying customers shows that. However, I do believe that if they make a game that a large amount of gamers want, then a large amount of gamers will buy it. That is if they aren't already voting with their feet and wallets because of other issues. For me, the pdf issue is paramount. I think they were 100% wrong in their reasoning for pulling them. And I think that whether intended or not, it was incredibly insulting to their fan base, and punishing their innocent fans...the majority of their fans...for the sins of a few. And that's just plain bad business. So I'm voting with my wallet.Even if 5E isn't the game for me, I would buy at least the core books, and even occasional other products that strike my fancy, and most likely a DDI subscription...just as I did with 4E, which also wasn't my preferred game. But only if pdf's return first.
IronWolf
blank
This is my concern. So far I haven't seen anything I would consider a dealbreaker in the rules as presented so far or in the various L&L articles. But not having the ability to have a PDF of the rules would likely prevent me from buying it.
*Maybe* if someone else in my group wanted to run it I would buy the Players Rules, but I would not be investing in the line from the DM's side of things.
With that phrasing, it sounds like you're ascribing a moral or ethical value to the choice. Is that your intent?
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
No. I apologize if it's coming across that way.
Unethical or immoral...? Not even close. Misguided, foolish, unreasonable...absolutely. Insulting...also yes. Intentionally insulting...I can't say with certainty, but I seriously doubt it. That would seem phenomonally foolish, and I don't think any company would purposefully do that (though there may be examples I've never seen). Financially wrong...I believe so. Though it's not the only cause of such problems for D&D, I believe it is contributory.
You had me, until you got to insulting. I don't see how choosing not to sell a particular product in a particular format at a given time time can reasonably be seen as an insult.
They're stated reasons for that choice may be insulting, but that's really separate, in my mind. Simply not making the product available is, in and of itself, insulting?
Stormonu
Legend
My reasoning is, I don't ever need another D&D product...I have all I'd ever need for a lifetime of playing - and then some (you can have my dice when you pry them from my cold, dead, uberpowerful Lich hands!
If you're not using Dicenomicon, you are dead to us e-gamers.
Stormonu
Legend
I could see it being an insult as they were pulled "because of piracy" - thinking of us as a pack of thieves who only want to pirate copies of the books, as if no one bought them legally (Personally, I bought scores of the old $4 books and had about 13 on my wish list when they got pulled, so there). Now, if they had been pulled because of poor quality, that'd been fairly reasonable - some of the scans were horrid. But thatwasn't the reason they gave for pulling them.
To me, it was on about the level of a movie studio pulling all their back catalog of DVDs because someone made a copy of the DVD of their latest blockbuster - just to force everyone to go to the theaters (as if they'd put their 30+ year old movies back in said theaters).
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
They pulled pdf's and kept them unavailable both because of the same reason (according to them): Piracy. That makes the reason and the action linked. I don't seperate the two. IMO, that's punishing the entirety of their customer base for the sins of a few. I find that insulting.
As a hypothetical only (not getting into politics): if a State decided to take away the right of all Senior Citizens to drive, because of the inability of a few Senior Citizens to safely do so, it would be seen by Senior Citizens as insulting (among other things). The reasoning and the action are not seperate and independent things.
Dark Mistress
First Post
No PDF's or some other way to allow me to buy digital books, download them and keep them on my PC would likely be a deal breaker for me, least for me buying stuff. Unless 5E just turned out to be the best game ever from my point of view, then I would still buy the books but bitch about no PDF's.
I don't use PDF's at the games but I use them a TON between games especially as a GM. I honestly don't think I would want to run a game where I couldn't have searchable PDF's of all the books I used.
I don't use PDF's at the games but I use them a TON between games especially as a GM. I honestly don't think I would want to run a game where I couldn't have searchable PDF's of all the books I used.
SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS
Explorer
To me is pdfs or no buy, I play and DM RPG only with my iPAD or a notebook.
tlantl
First Post
The nice thing about PDF's is that they make lugging around a dozen books a thing of the past.
They also allow me to store the written copies away so they don't get ruined, and I can still relax in bed or in the arm chair and read a real book when I want to.
I've gotten spoiled by the Pathfinder PDF's I bought. they allow me to own a copy of a book I probably wouldn't have bought otherwise, they reside in my computer where they do the most good and are easy to print portions of when I need to.
I don't really expect WotC to go this route since they are afraid to give away content to the multitude who will down load it for free any way, although a search on line will show that all of their stuff is already there.
I will or won't buy their game depending on whether it fits my needs or not. I might be inclined to purchase electronic copies of the core rules even if i don't see the merits of buying the game to play, that is as long as I can get three or four PDFs for the price of the player's hand book.
I don't see this issue as one that is going to influence my decision to buy into their game, though.
They also allow me to store the written copies away so they don't get ruined, and I can still relax in bed or in the arm chair and read a real book when I want to.
I've gotten spoiled by the Pathfinder PDF's I bought. they allow me to own a copy of a book I probably wouldn't have bought otherwise, they reside in my computer where they do the most good and are easy to print portions of when I need to.
I don't really expect WotC to go this route since they are afraid to give away content to the multitude who will down load it for free any way, although a search on line will show that all of their stuff is already there.
I will or won't buy their game depending on whether it fits my needs or not. I might be inclined to purchase electronic copies of the core rules even if i don't see the merits of buying the game to play, that is as long as I can get three or four PDFs for the price of the player's hand book.
I don't see this issue as one that is going to influence my decision to buy into their game, though.
OnlineDM
Adventurer
For what it's worth, I found this post from Jon Schindehette, the senior creative director for D&D, to be a good sign. He talks at length about his love of reading books on the iPad and the nature of designing covers for both print and electronic books.
It makes me think that the folks at WotC are planning to release electronic versions of the D&D Next books. Here's hoping!
It makes me think that the folks at WotC are planning to release electronic versions of the D&D Next books. Here's hoping!
Nikosandros
Golden Procrastinator
I'm curious. Besides WotC, which others RPG companies are not relasing PDFs of their products? Even FGU and Palladium are selling them.
delericho
Legend
IMO, anything that can be sold in electronic form should be sold in electronic form. Additionally, most things should also appear in print (although I can see some value in DDI-exclusives). Finally, they really should find some means of allowing people who purchased the physical version to also get the electronic version at a vastly reduced price - Paizo's model where subscribers get free PDFs being a model here (though not the only option).
Because we're currently in a transition phase, where there are still a very significant number of people who play physical-only, there are also a significant number of people who play electronic-only, and so they should look to bridging that gap. With the next edition (if there is one), they can consider electronic-only distribution.
I do find it amusing that just about the only use I have for an iPad or similar is to easily carry my RPG library, but that isn't (and likely will never be) practical - most of the PDFs just aren't (legally) available, and even if they were, it would be at a cost I wouldn't be willing to pay. Even at $1 a book, that's still too much to duplicate everything.
Because we're currently in a transition phase, where there are still a very significant number of people who play physical-only, there are also a significant number of people who play electronic-only, and so they should look to bridging that gap. With the next edition (if there is one), they can consider electronic-only distribution.
I do find it amusing that just about the only use I have for an iPad or similar is to easily carry my RPG library, but that isn't (and likely will never be) practical - most of the PDFs just aren't (legally) available, and even if they were, it would be at a cost I wouldn't be willing to pay. Even at $1 a book, that's still too much to duplicate everything.
Mattachine
Adventurer
I don't want just a PDF: I want an interactive, customizable digital book. The new wave of school textbooks are like this.
If it's gonna be digital, it should be functional.
If it's gonna be digital, it should be functional.
But the "new wave" of textbooks are by no means a standard format, yet.
PDF isn't really made for a book on a mobile device, but I have the benefit of ubiquitous and long-term support for the format, even if the company that made the product goes away, I can expect my file to be accessible for years to come.
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