D&D 5E PDFs and Next

[Mercule]

I'm torn, on this one. I've run a few games using just my iPad, and it has ups and downs. At the same time, I'm likely to buy a whole shelf of my "chosen" game, and that's hard to lug around.

I think my preference would be the same as for the tech books I buy: dual release. I pretty much only buy from Manning, anymore, for that reason. I get the ebook/pdf to actually read cover-to-cover and/or search, but have the pbook to lend to others (for tech, it's proselytism ; for RPGs, it'd be to bookmark and quick-flip between pages at the table). I'm not going to buy them twice, though, in most cases.

 

[billd91]

I'm torn, on this one. I've run a few games using just my iPad, and it has ups and downs. At the same time, I'm likely to buy a whole shelf of my "chosen" game, and that's hard to lug around.

I think my preference would be the same as for the tech books I buy: dual release. I pretty much only buy from Manning, anymore, for that reason. I get the ebook/pdf to actually read cover-to-cover and/or search, but have the pbook to lend to others (for tech, it's proselytism ; for RPGs, it'd be to bookmark and quick-flip between pages at the table). I'm not going to buy them twice, though, in most cases.

This is why I'm thrilled with Paizo's subscription model. I have the physical version to tote around and read yet I also have the PDF version to run from my iPad while preserving the binding on the originals during heavy use. I also have the Bestiaries to copy/paste stat blocks from for easy editing. Seriously, if 5e can't match that, it's falling behind in utility. And there's no excuse for that I have to accept.

 

[avin]

You youngsters...

Back in my day we had to carry our dnd books back AND forth from one place to another....

....uphill both ways...
...no shoes...
...waist high snow and blazing sun....

WITH OUR BARE HANDS!!!!!!!

Bah...bah I say....

I did the same, carrying boxes with miniatures, snacks and sodas... I also had no car, that's why I <3 PDF

 

[Blackwarder]

If WotC doesn't come up with an effective method of digitally distributing the game so that people can run the game on an iPad or other hand-held device without being connected to the internet, they might as well stick a fork in 5e and their RPG division. They're done.

No kidding. I've been reading a lot of new RPGs on my tablet. It almost seems odd to think the new D&D game would be the one exception. In fact, odd is the very polite way of putting it.

To be honest, this is by far more of a 'dealbreaker' than anything yet suggested about the rules.

If there isn't the capacity for me to download and utilise the D&D game on my IPad I simply won't buy the game.

PDFs are great for copying info to a character sheet, but I would like some kind of phone app to look up the rules.


Even if my group would hate me for using a phone in mid session after yelling at them for doing the same.

If there are no PDFs, the odds of me buying the core books drops to about 50% and the odds of me buying anything past that drop to 0%.

PDF is pretty important for me.
Honestly, being able to access the rules on a tablet with proper indexing and searching facilities is just priceless.

The whole idea of not distributing PDF's is a bit rediculous to me. If they dont distribute PDF's, someone is just going to torrent a scanned version of the doc's anyway. They are better off distributing PDF's and finding a way to turn that into a profitable distribution model.

An electronic version of the rules is important to me. PDF -- which is a print format and therefore not very well suited to electronic devices with vary widely in resolution (not to mention having problems with e-ink devices) -- is not.

I did too, and I vowed to never again buy a WotC product until downloadable and ownable versions of all WotC products (previous and current editions) were made available again. (Doesn't have to be pdf's for me; but it does need to be ownable-not just rented or available to read only on DDI, use a common software reader, be usable on iPad, and be cut-and-paste-able.)

I'm liking what I'm seeing and hearing so far with 5E. And I am participating in the playtest to be a part of making it a game I will like. But I still won't buy it or any other WotC product (minis, cards, accessories, etc.) until ownable electronic versions of their books are made available again. Period.

No PDF's or some other way to allow me to buy digital books, download them and keep them on my PC would likely be a deal breaker for me, least for me buying stuff. Unless 5E just turned out to be the best game ever from my point of view, then I would still buy the books but bitch about no PDF's.

I don't use PDF's at the games but I use them a TON between games especially as a GM. I honestly don't think I would want to run a game where I couldn't have searchable PDF's of all the books I used.

To me is pdfs or no buy, I play and DM RPG only with my iPAD or a notebook.

It's annoying to carry books from a place to another to play D&D.

This is iPad and Android time.

Books should be available on PDF or some sort of ebooks.

I don't want just a PDF: I want an interactive, customizable digital book. The new wave of school textbooks are like this.
If it's gonna be digital, it should be functional.

All of those

I just want to be able to run and play from my iPad and to be able to purchase any book I'd like without needing to wait for it to come in the mail.

I haven't bought a printed book for three years now, I might buy the core rule books in hardcover, but that's only because I collect them.

Warder

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Personally, I don't care at all if a PDF is available. I strongly prefer real books, especially for gaming. None of the "advantages" are particularly compelling for me either. It seems to be a non-issue for most folks I know from places other than internet forums as well.

I do hope that all of you that like them get what you want, though.

I think piracy concerns are a very legitimate concern as well. I had an idea to combat them that I thought I'd run by the folks here both for usability by legitimate customers and for resistance to piracy. (I'm a professional techy but I know very little about current piracy methods and technologies)

So what about a standalone iPad app that works like current 4E online rules access? You can look up anything you want on it with either keyword search or tree format, but it shows at most sections of the book, not full chapters, to make copying the whole thing en masse slightly more difficult. It's formatted for viewing on the iPad, but doesn't allow capture or printing of content. There is additional dynamic content that can't be easily copied to a pdf like example videos, sound effects, random table result generators, and so on. The whole thing runs thin-client fashion from WOTC's servers, so you never have the whole book stored locally on you machine.

 

[Blackwarder]

Piracy concerns are BS, I only started downloading pirated PDFs when I couldn't get them otherwise.

Warder

 

[Henry]

I know that since I bought an ipad, I haven't regretted at all my shift to just taking my ipad to the game with me, and more recently starting keeping my PC on a PDF and almost entirely skip pencil and paper now. Should we switch from pathfinder back to D&D, it's going be jarring for me (and my shoulders ) to start hefting a bunch of books again.

 

[billd91]

Piracy concerns are BS, I only started downloading pirated PDFs when I couldn't get them otherwise.

Warder

I don't know that they're completely BS, but considering every 4e book is undoubtedly available as a pirated PDF, not offering an electronic version is clearly NOT the solution to piracy concerns. Rather, it just cuts off access a market to wants those materials that can be a revenue stream they otherwise might not get.

 

[Kabluey]

I doubt very, very much Hasbro is that involved with D&D. Hasbro managers have their own company to manage, with its billion dollar brands. D&D is forgettable and likely something they leave entirely to WotC, only dealing with reports and summaries and generalities. Day-to-day and month-to-month is likely all WotC. So PDFs seem like upper WotC management...

Heh, then you severely underestimate the bureaucracy of your average corporation. My company has to have EVERY hiring decision approved by our parent company, for example, let alone more important decisions like pricing, strategy, etc. WotC's upper management will certainly come up with the company strategy, but ultimately Hasbro will sign off on it.

And don't assume the size of revenue is a factor either. The group within my company is only a fraction of the total employee base and barely a trickle of our company's revenue, and probably close to a rounding error for our parent company, but our project is watched closely all the way up the line to the parent company's CEO. Sure, day-to-day decisions are made at the group level, but strategy shifts are reviewed and approved by our parent company, even for my small group. And whether or not to sell PDF's seems more like a strategy decision, not an operating decision.

Revenue/profit isn't the sole determination of importance within a company. My group is seen as a future growth leader, so it's viewed as important. You could be right and Hasbro doesn't care or give much input, but if they see D&D as anything other than a just profit center (e.g., as an IP that could be leveraged for movies), then Hasbro may be far more involved than you think.

If they do bring back PDFs I want them to be (much) cheaper than physical books, but also with more features. Bookmarks and hyerlinks are a must. The earlier PDFs were amateurish. And the competition (especially the many PDF-only 3rd party publishers) really know what they're doing now.

Well, price is less of an issue for me, not because I have unlimited funds, but because I recognize that the physical cost of a book is not the largest cost for producing a book. But otherwise I agree. I buy all my gaming books in pdf form now (even if I buy a hard copy, I still buy a pdf), and the few pdf's I run into now without bookmarks pretty much insure I won't buy anything else from that company.

 

[Kabluey]

I don't know that they're completely BS, but considering every 4e book is undoubtedly available as a pirated PDF, not offering an electronic version is clearly NOT the solution to piracy concerns. Rather, it just cuts off access a market to wants those materials that can be a revenue stream they otherwise might not get.

The other thing is that measuring the effects of piracy is not easy. You can't just simply equate an illegal download to a lost sale, because many people who downloaded probably weren't going to buy the product anyway.

And then there are other considerations. If someone pirates a book, but then likes it and buys the print version, then you've made a sale you wouldn't have otherwise - and maybe even a long-term customer. Or if someone downloads a book, and this leads to his group switching to the new system, then you've made sales that you may potentially never have had.

I'm not saying piracy isn't a legitimate concern for a company. All I'm saying is that it's much more complex than simply "illegal downloads = lost sales". In fact, it might even be "illegal downloads = more sales".