PDFS--Of the WotC Court Case

[ShadoWWW]

I hope there will be a substitute for PDF soon.

I guess there are options to do it:

Release it via DDI. This would be great. WotC would have maximal control for that and DDI would get more subscribers.

Many buyers of PDF buy hard cover as well. It would be great if there would be a code in PDF which would serve like a discount coupon for hard cover book. This would increase sale of books and if somebody put the PDF to share, there would be definetely somebody who use the pirate code and disclose the source very soon.

The discount coupon would be really useful if it would be attached to Kindle document format (instead of PDF) so Amazon would give the discount to hard cover books ordered via Amazon and earn more money this way.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I hope there will be a substitute for PDF soon.

I guess there are options to do it:

Release it via DDI. This would be great. WotC would have maximal control for that and DDI would get more subscribers.

Many buyers of PDF buy hard cover as well. It would be great if there would be a code in PDF which would serve like a discount coupon for hard cover book. This would increase sale of books and if somebody put the PDF to share, there would be definetely somebody who use the pirate code and disclose the source very soon.

The discount coupon would be really useful if it would be attached to Kindle document format (instead of PDF) so Amazon would give the discount to hard cover books ordered via Amazon and earn more money this way.

A big interest in PDFs exists for out-of-print books from previous editions. I am not sure anyone would want to subscribe to DDI just for that. Though maybe the basic facilities of DDI can be used to create access. Still, a problem remains - the digital book needs to be in a form that makes piracy hard to impossible, and that can hardly be guaranteed without considerably reducing the usability of the books, like having to be always online for reading.

 

[clearstream]

A quick thought. Since the crunch isn't generally protected (save in the form presented per normal copyright) if someone wanted to reproduce the mechanics of PHB2 and use them that'd be hard to stop. (I'm not commenting on the desirability of doing so.)

OTOH the fluff is generally protected through the use of distinctive names (tiefling, eladrin, Faerun, etc) or less distinctive names in specific contexts.

It's kind of amusing that Fluff is more protected than Crunch

-vk

 

[wedgeski]

Huh, this is an interesting idea. As DM, you have a certain amount of authority to control what is and isn't allowed, and leveraging that authority to prevent harmful piracy is compelling.

I wonder if this idea would catch on with DMs - it keeps your game on the moral up-and-up as well as helping the industry out.

I'm jumping six pages of thread here but let me just say that I do have this policy in my "Ground Rules" document.

Now, I can't, shouldn't, and don't have any right to dictate what my players do off the table, but if someone turns up with a printed version of a book I know they don't have, we're going to have words about it.

It's not realistically enforcable, but it is a position statement, and that's the best I can do.

 

[AllisterH]

Who said anything about whether it was legal? All anyone is saying is that it's (a) possible, and (b) in practise, unlikely to get you kicked out of a B&N or other big chain bookstore.

Bad enough so many people here are confusing what's legal with what's moral, without people confusing what's legal with what's possible as well.

Perhaps I read it wrong but Nifft seemed to be implying that copying books were legal since you could do it in a bookstore and not be kicked out. If he was not saying this , I apologize for mischaracterizing his statement.

re: Copyright Tax

Yeah, there is something similar in Canada. I assume that this would be the standard world-wide.

 

[freyar]

The number of files downloaded is so massive I find it disingenuous to hear that it has no effect on sales. For the PHB 2 the number of download is an order of magnitude greater than the books sold.

To be accurate, the 10:1 ratio for piracy to sales counted PDF sales only (here's the link to the discussion of Morrus's interview with Greg Leeds). Whether it changes the argument or not is a different question, but let's keep things clear.

 

[Voadam]

Then there are the people who download it because they didn't want to pay retail price. They use the data and they found a way around paying for it. That's wrong. Those are lost sales.

Then there are those who use the books of others in their group, use the data, and never pay for it themselves. Those seem to be the same kind of "lost sale" as acquiring free copies, but not infringing and not wrong.

If the downloads were a pure lend service, (only one copy exists, just used by different people at different times) that would not be copywrite infringement and the copywrite holders would still "lose" those sales.

Further, these would only be lost sales if the person using the data would actually buy the book if they could not get it for free instead of doing without it.

I don't want to pay retail price for books. I buy cheap legal pdfs and used books, I borrow books from friends and the library, I give book suggestions when family members ask me what I'd like for a birthday gift. I found multiple ways to get around paying retail price for books and still use the data. I am not doing something wrong.

 

[Nifft]

Still, a problem remains - the digital book needs to be in a form that makes piracy hard to impossible, and that can hardly be guaranteed without considerably reducing the usability of the books, like having to be always online for reading.

IMHO, the iTunes store shows all that's necessary is for legal purchase be slightly more convenient than piracy (and not punitively expensive).

Sure, some people will still choose unauthorized copying, but that's just how life is. Physical stores contend with shoplifters by taking reasonable measures to prevent shoplifting, and then pricing in theft (because making a store theft-proof would also make it customer-proof).

I've got some ideas on convenience features for legal purchasers, if WotC is interested in trying some carrot-centric tactics.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

To be accurate, the 10:1 ratio for piracy to sales counted PDF sales only (here's the link to the discussion of Morrus's interview with Greg Leeds). Whether it changes the argument or not is a different question, but let's keep things clear.

I wish we had access to Amazon's sales numbers for 4e core books & gift sets.

We know the approximate date of the leaked PDFs hitting the internet. If we could see 4e's pre-order volume before, during, and after that period, I think it would be illuminating.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Baron Opal]

We know the approximate date of the leaked PDFs hitting the internet. If we could see 4e's pre-order volume before, during, and after that period, I think it would be illuminating.

Indeed, that would be great.

Then there are those who use the books of others in their group, use the data, and never pay for it themselves. Those seem to be the same kind of "lost sale" as acquiring free copies, but not infringing and not wrong.

I don't want to pay retail price for books. I buy cheap legal pdfs and used books, I borrow books from friends and the library, I give book suggestions when family members ask me what I'd like for a birthday gift. I found multiple ways to get around paying retail price for books and still use the data. I am not doing something wrong.

No, you're not.

Do you honestly not see my point?