penalty for cheating

[jdavis]

I just finally realized what was said, and how insulting it is that anyone here would laugh at prayer.
Thanks so much.

Nobody was laughing at prayer they were saying that your story now sounds fishy. What you wrote makes it sound like your group is doing a intervention to try and help a player deal with his addiction to cheating at D&D, and you wonder why people think that sounds a little fishy? You turned cheating at D&D into something that requires a group intervention. A cry for help is something a drug addict does when he can't stop himself not something that happens when somebody wants to get caught cheating at D&D so people will help him. Either this has very little to do with a dice and somebody had serious problems that were totally unrelated to the dice or this is a troll (or somebody is taking cheating at D&D way way too seriously). Are you saying that the whole group got together with the guy to help him with his horrible problem that he is addicted to cheating at D&D? I think that if you had said "It turns out there was a lot more to this than just cheating at dice" there would of been no head shaking but you said:

After an e-mail exchange with the person in question, he explained that his actions were "a cry for help."

That makes it sound like this is somebody that needs mental help not somebody who cheated on attack roles.

These kind of Troll topics do pop up around here (more often than you would think, like the "should DMs get paid" thread) people are going to wonder when something sounds a little off. If your's is real then it is great it worked out fine but the way you worded your last post made this sound a little over the top for a simple cheating at dice story.

 

[jdavis]

BVB: Yep. If you'd said "meditate" or "think", it would have been fine, but if you say "pray", someone is going to get uncomfortable, and then they're going to attack you.

No if he had said "the whole group got together and meditated on the problem" then it would of been the same reaction. Nobody was attacking him for praying they were attacking his story as sounding like it was made up to get a big thread going and get people talking. There is a big difference there.

 

[BVB]

That's a very judgmental and assumptive attitude.
But I'm not going to argue whatever you might think about my friends and me. This thread shouldn't be allowed to spin out on that particular tangent; it serves no good purpose.

Instead, I'll say it once more: Thanks to all of you who provided constructive feedback. It's appreciated.

 

[Lela]

Thanks to all of you who provided constructive feedback. It's appreciated.

Be sure to let us know how it works out over time. We really are interested to see what works and what doesn't (both have equal value to us).

I'd only ask that when (not if) you do post back you at least post a link in this thread. For those of us (namely me) who don't get to browse out front that often it really helps.

 

[Trainz]

Best Troll ever.

I give it 6 out of 5 stars. A must read for all true troll lovers.

Then I figure you're not acquainted with Ron Poirier a.k.a. Werebat on news:rec.games.frp.dnd ...

That said, the one that claims that everybody at one time or another cheated... I never. Never.

There was this one time though...

[memory lane]

10 years ago, I was invited to that single game session with a DM I had never played with before, and players I never played with before either. The DM gives me one of the NPC's sheet, and I play with that.

After half an hour, a fight with some kingsmen starts. Ok. At my init, I roll the twenny sider: 1

I look at the players and sigh. Really quick, one of the other players says:"He misses !" while the other player on my right grabs my arm and puts his index against his pursed lips, inviting me to shut the hell up: I Am Stunned.

The DM, behind his screen, sees nothing of it all. Not wanting to be a jackass in a group I have never played with, I don't say nuthin'. However, I keep giving the evil eye at the players as they go on turning their misses into criticals, their fumbles into hits.

Things go on, me not givin' a darn anymore, because everything is so friggin' lame (talk about suspension of disbelief), and then it happens again: I roll another 1.

One of the players, again:"He hits !"

Me:"No ! I rolled a 1 ! I miss ! I fumble !"

The players gave a sigh and I felt like a stool, with all the players giving me a look of contempt.

Then it happened:

The DM gave a chuckle, looked at the players with a knowing look, and resumed the fight.

Then it hit me: the players cheat, the DM is in on it, and that's how everybody likes it in that group.

I never played with them again. They just didn't fit my playing style...

 

[jdavis]

That's a very judgmental and assumptive attitude.
But I'm not going to argue whatever you might think about my friends and me. This thread shouldn't be allowed to spin out on that particular tangent; it serves no good purpose.

Instead, I'll say it once more: Thanks to all of you who provided constructive feedback. It's appreciated.

Just pointing out why it looked odd to some people, I'm not judging you or your friends, I'm just trying to explain what people were seeing in what you posted and why it looked a little fishy. I've known people who have had serious personal problems (like my brother and his certain habit) and cheating at D&D is not a serious enough problem to require a "cry for help". Your wording makes it seem there is much more here than meets the eye. I have every sympathy for somebody with real personal problems and if that is the case here then I wish him the best of luck.

As far as the prayer thing I'd skirt carefully around any religious references. not because they might get laughed at but because they are against the rules here (see f.a.q.).

 

[Numion]

After half an hour, a fight with some kingsmen starts. Ok. At my init, I roll the twenny sider: 1

I look at the players and sigh. Really quick, one of the other players says:"He misses !" while the other player on my right grabs my arm and puts his index against his pursed lips, inviting me to shut the hell up: I Am Stunned.

Isn't 1 supposed to be a miss? Where's teh cheat?

 

[jdavis]

Isn't 1 supposed to be a miss? Where's teh cheat?

1 is a fumble which is more than just a miss.

I gamed with a guy for many years that cheated, he was a wonderful roleplayer he just fudged dice rolls. The funny thing was that he's not very good at cheating, everybody knew it, it was so obvious sometimes that it was just silly. The game was adjusted around this and nobody ever called him on it, the game was great roleplaying fun and the DM normally adjusted for his silliness (when I was DMing I would just throw some of the most blatent fudges out by not subtracting them from the monsters hit points). Some of the best gaming we ever did was with him around he was a wonderful roleplayer and did everything well, he just had a tendancy to fudge dice rolls. Calling him on it would of been awkward and damaged our game not to mention he was close friends with everybody in the group (some of them going back 2 decades). If it hurt the game that would of been different but the game was still fun for everybody (heck him not gaming with us hurt our game). I'd still game with him today no problem. (we did end up laughing at him about it, not because he was cheating but because he was just so bad at it.) The point that was made earlier about this all depends on what the group as a whole thinks was a very good one. You have to look at these situations with a broad view and do what is best for the group whatever that may be, we have had problems with cheaters before where they hurt the game but there was generally more to it than just fudging some rolls there were personality clashes there too, the person in my story got along well and added a lot to the group, he just sometimes called a 6 as a 16. Now if he had went out and bought loaded dice we wouldn't of been able to keep a straight face around him because that really is just silly.

 

[fba827]

My take:

If the other players do NOT seem annoyed (and hopefully ou know them well enough to tell) then a simple warning and move on.
(making the assumption here that you like the guy as a gaming associate and would rather not just kick him out since your instinct already was to simply give him a one week out).

If the other players do seem annoyed (or you simply can't tell) then I'd go with an XP dock from the character in question (maybe 2 levels? 1 level? - at least one level lower than the lowest PC) and a warning.

Then, from there out, do NOT show signs of "not trusting him" (even if you don't, just try and move on) -- that only becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.... generally, if someone _knows_ you do not expect something from them (in this case honesty) chances are they will be less likley to give it to you.


your group dynamics may vary ...


Question: How often do you play? If you play once a week.. then sitting out for a week may not be more than a session -- just trying to understand the severity of the initial punshiment you've proposed.

(anyway, just my ramblings)

 

[drnuncheon]

I think that if I, as a DM, had a player who was cheating, but I had other reasons to not kick him out of the group, I would adopt this solution:

"OK, 'Bob', you can keep playing, but I make all of your rolls."

It's simple, non-disruptive solution that doesn't penalize the group, but still has the desired effect - the player no longer cheats.

Regarding the "is this a troll" subthread...I have to admit, the "cry for help" sounded fishy to me, but I thought it sounded fishy on the cheater's part. "If I say it was a 'cry for help' everyone will feel sorry for me." Maybe that's because I've generally seen that phrase being used by other people, and not by the people actually in need of assistance.

Basically, what I'm saying is: keep watching him.

J