Per-Encounter Powers

And what exactly about powers that are recovered after a short rest makes it more difficult to balance them against monsters compared to at-will powers, magic items and power increases from level gains?

The fact that there is no universally accepted standard for how often should rests should occur.

If I buy a daily power, I know I will get to use it once a day, if I buy a at will I know I will get to use it once a round. If I buy an encounter power, I have no idea what that really means because its utterly down to circumstance.
 

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Micromanagement. If you have an encounter-based design, you have to balance each and every encounter to make sure it's challenging without being overpowering.

If you have a daily-based design, you just have to make sure no particular encounter is going to TPK. Even weak encounters are going to chip away at resources and provide some level of challenge managing those resources. Far less stress and need to micromanage and balance every single encounter.

IMO you don't need have to do that balancing because of encounter powers.

It is other aspects 4E that cause the "must separate and balance" effect:

e.g. (not exhaustive):

1) Time spent at the table and rules focus on the combat game. Encourages combats as "set pieces" which are fun to play in their own right (but which then steal time and focus from exploration).

2) XP budget system, and encounter-building advice in the DMG. All advice points you at building the set pieces that work nicely with the mechanics.

3) Small encounters (e.g. a couple of guards at the entrance) often not worth the set up time, compared to how they progress the story. You could of course run such things as a skill challenge, but I found that this didn't sit well with the players, they expect fights of any kind to use the combat mechanics.
 

The fact that there is no universally accepted standard for how often should rests should occur.

If I buy a daily power, I know I will get to use it once a day, if I buy a at will I know I will get to use it once a round. If I buy an encounter power, I have no idea what that really means because its utterly down to circumstance.
A "daily" power is simply one that is regained after a long rest. If you can't even be sure of your ability to take a short rest, it seems that you should be even less sure of your ability to take a long rest. Unless, for some mysterious reason, eight-hour breaks are more reliable than five- (or ten-) minute breaks.
 

A "daily" power is simply one that is regained after a long rest. If you can't even be sure of your ability to take a short rest, it seems that you should be even less sure of your ability to take a long rest. Unless, for some mysterious reason, eight-hour breaks are more reliable than five- (or ten-) minute breaks.

Sleep is hard coded, if your GM isn't letting you sleep around every 24 hours you have way more problems than lack of spells.
 

Sleep is hard coded, if your GM isn't letting you sleep around every 24 hours you have way more problems than lack of spells.

Sometimes things crop up in discussions that make you realise that you've been playing a different game, and live on a different planet, to other roleplayers.

"Sleep is hard coded" would be one of those things . . .

I'm really not even sure what that means, since "once every 24 hours" says nothing about what goes on in that time. Personally, I have a big issue with "once every 24 hours", because that leads to weird non-story-like pauses narrated as "we rest up here for 16 hours to cure and re-gain spells".

I'd guess that a lot of players that have a problem with "once every short rest", are looking for some literal, objective time interval like "once per hour". And that's probably because they feel they understand and/or have control over these time measurements, in a way that they don't over the more vague "after a short rest".

Is it simply that; hard mechanical numbers versus soft story-focussed phrases? Because the game designers could probably just allow for both, and give us all the option in D&D Next . . .

E.g.

Story-focussed: "Re-gains use after an extended rest", "Re-gains use after a short rest"

Number-focussed: "Use once per 24 hours", "Use once per hour".
 

Yeah, I find the whole daily power recharge more disconcerting, and far more balance-bending too. Two groups will go into an adventure, and one thinks that resting at any time other than "between adventures" should be avoided at all cost, while the other sees no reason not to rest the equivalent of every other room.

And yeah, they get wackily different levels of challenge, levels of interest, everything.
 

Sleep is hard coded, if your GM isn't letting you sleep around every 24 hours you have way more problems than lack of spells.
And IMO, if you DM is kind enough to let you sleep for eight hours every night, he should be kind enough to let you rest five minutes after each fight. If not, it would make me wonder whether he is somehow ... prejudiced ... against short rests.
 

And IMO, if you DM is kind enough to let you sleep for eight hours every night, he should be kind enough to let you rest five minutes after each fight. If not, it would make me wonder whether he is somehow ... prejudiced ... against short rests.

The problem is, this is not a universal view. Some groups like a faster paced game than this allows, and putting in powers that require them to rest means you either explicitly exclude their play style, or are forced to try and balance the game around powers that you know full well are incredibly more powerful to some groups of players than others.
 

Yeah, I find the whole daily power recharge more disconcerting, and far more balance-bending too. Two groups will go into an adventure, and one thinks that resting at any time other than "between adventures" should be avoided at all cost, while the other sees no reason not to rest the equivalent of every other room.
Critical issue here: the DM.

This is a problem only if you view the scenario in a vacuum. If each group of monsters is fixed, never returns from the dead, never moves, and is thus a predefined, unvarying obstacle the party must overcome precisely once - then indeed, whether the party rests a lot or a little is merely a choice that might make things easier or harder.

But if you assume the DM's interested in his story and somewhat competent, this works out entirely differently. There is probably an external world and taking weeks to clear the caves as opposed to a day may have consequences. The monsters (or different monsters) might come back if an area is left alone long enough. Or they might communicate and overwhelm the PC's if they're left alone long enough. Even without active cooperation, they'll likely notice somethings amiss, and individually prepare.

And the best part about these balance "workarounds"? They turn monster stat blocks into a living, breathing world in which the PC's can't just stomp one encounter after the other, they need to think about what it is they're doing, and who they're doing it to. Some challenges will best involve lots of resting; others fast action with little resting. Sometime you'd best avoid short rests (keep the enemy confused), and if you take a break you might as well take a few days. Other times short rests are fine, but long rests let the enemies fix the holes in their defenses (say, a more sparsely populated dungeon but one that's intelligently defended).

If the game introduces mechanics taking that choice away from the players - i.e. every encounter they're at almost full strength regardless of previous decisions - then you're taking the flex out of the system. Denying a short rest suddenly becomes akin to a death sentence. The PC's need to approach each monstrous home invasion :p similarly - they need to rest for a short while after every encounter; and they might as well try to go on as long as possible since they can't really control how long they can last in a day anyhow.

Encounter powers by themselves don't cause this problem, but for them to shine, they could use some tweaking. Say, a fatigue system of something, as you suggested :-).
 

The problem is, this is not a universal view. Some groups like a faster paced game than this allows, and putting in powers that require them to rest means you either explicitly exclude their play style, or are forced to try and balance the game around powers that you know full well are incredibly more powerful to some groups of players than others.
So, you are advocating a game in which there are only at-will powers, then? Otherwise, having to rely on a short rest to regain abillities should not be any more problematic than having to rely on long rests to regain abilities.
 

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