Sadrik
First Post
I actually have quite a lot to say on this subject.
1. Switching stats around in 4e seems to be well within the purview of the game. Take INT as your example of non-reality. Supposedly I am so smart it allows me to dodge better. Why, because I can tell the trajectory of the attack? What about when I put heavy armor on, now I am not so smart I guess? These kinds of examples are riddled throughout the 4e rules set. So stats really don't represent anything other than a number which may have some small minor effect tied to it. Stats are so important to combat they force your hand and basically cookie cut your character for you. Some times the designers created your character the way you want and some times they didn't.
I really don't see a problem with the stats going to different skills. An early 4e house rule I was toying with did just that it stripped away the switcheroo defenses (which causes stat polarity) resetting them back to their more natural 3e format. At the same time, I made all of the skills allowed to be used with the highest of two possible stats. So for instance, Heal was INT or WIS etc. This could be a possible solution for you.
2. Wisdom has always been one of the most ill conceived stats. It has even gotten worse in 4e. It is literally a catch-all that has no specific meaning. It is a place for certain types of knowledge (healing, nature and dungeoneering), is also represents your keen senses, it also represents your ability to ward off mental effects, hunches, telling lies, and it finally represents divine magic for the cleric (well so does STR). So, if you ask me it is the problem of the stat and not so much the problem of if perception should be somewhere else.
I have always favored wisdom representing "Awareness" and "Willpower" and none of the other aspects. However, in 4e the stats don't really represent anything other than a number. Certain things are tied down, but others are simply, hand waved as "whatevers". For instance STR still represents encumbrance, CON still represents HP and each stat has an associated list of skills, but pretty much everything else in the system is up for grabs. Who would have thought you could fight as bad ass as Conan with an 8 STR and 18 INT - you can - there's a feat!
I think that the current incarnation of D&D would be a better game with 5 stats instead of 6. Without a true calling WIS can easily be spread into INT and CHA. One of my hopes for a 5e would be to give WIS a true calling like it never has had in the past.
3. In 1e perception was not linked to any stat it was simply a d6 (if I recall correctly a 1 in 6 and elves a 2 in 6 and thieves had a similar starting percentage and it went up from there). Perception skill could simply be nixed in favor of a simpler format that is not tied to any stat. Many games have a perception "stat", rather than a skill.
4. Another approach for fixing your concern is the notion that certain classes are forced into only two ways because of all of the side benefits they get for having there stats in that way. I think that there really are a lot of fixes here, but my favorite is the idea that the prime stat is fixed, but the player can decide what their secondary stat is. You want to be a wise rogue, no sweat. Just have a high DEX, and place your second highest stat in WIS, all of your secondary stat effects trigger off of that stat so you don't lose anything for doing it that way.
5. Finally the last approach is to make perception a defense and give certain classes bonuses (Ranger +2, Rogue +2, and perhaps Warlord a +1). It is already a mini-defense in the form of passive perception give it full-bore credibility with the +1/2 level + WIS or DEX or some such and be done with it. When someone wants to "actively" search, use thievery for traps, nature for tracks outdoors etc.
1. Switching stats around in 4e seems to be well within the purview of the game. Take INT as your example of non-reality. Supposedly I am so smart it allows me to dodge better. Why, because I can tell the trajectory of the attack? What about when I put heavy armor on, now I am not so smart I guess? These kinds of examples are riddled throughout the 4e rules set. So stats really don't represent anything other than a number which may have some small minor effect tied to it. Stats are so important to combat they force your hand and basically cookie cut your character for you. Some times the designers created your character the way you want and some times they didn't.
I really don't see a problem with the stats going to different skills. An early 4e house rule I was toying with did just that it stripped away the switcheroo defenses (which causes stat polarity) resetting them back to their more natural 3e format. At the same time, I made all of the skills allowed to be used with the highest of two possible stats. So for instance, Heal was INT or WIS etc. This could be a possible solution for you.
2. Wisdom has always been one of the most ill conceived stats. It has even gotten worse in 4e. It is literally a catch-all that has no specific meaning. It is a place for certain types of knowledge (healing, nature and dungeoneering), is also represents your keen senses, it also represents your ability to ward off mental effects, hunches, telling lies, and it finally represents divine magic for the cleric (well so does STR). So, if you ask me it is the problem of the stat and not so much the problem of if perception should be somewhere else.
I have always favored wisdom representing "Awareness" and "Willpower" and none of the other aspects. However, in 4e the stats don't really represent anything other than a number. Certain things are tied down, but others are simply, hand waved as "whatevers". For instance STR still represents encumbrance, CON still represents HP and each stat has an associated list of skills, but pretty much everything else in the system is up for grabs. Who would have thought you could fight as bad ass as Conan with an 8 STR and 18 INT - you can - there's a feat!
I think that the current incarnation of D&D would be a better game with 5 stats instead of 6. Without a true calling WIS can easily be spread into INT and CHA. One of my hopes for a 5e would be to give WIS a true calling like it never has had in the past.
3. In 1e perception was not linked to any stat it was simply a d6 (if I recall correctly a 1 in 6 and elves a 2 in 6 and thieves had a similar starting percentage and it went up from there). Perception skill could simply be nixed in favor of a simpler format that is not tied to any stat. Many games have a perception "stat", rather than a skill.
4. Another approach for fixing your concern is the notion that certain classes are forced into only two ways because of all of the side benefits they get for having there stats in that way. I think that there really are a lot of fixes here, but my favorite is the idea that the prime stat is fixed, but the player can decide what their secondary stat is. You want to be a wise rogue, no sweat. Just have a high DEX, and place your second highest stat in WIS, all of your secondary stat effects trigger off of that stat so you don't lose anything for doing it that way.
5. Finally the last approach is to make perception a defense and give certain classes bonuses (Ranger +2, Rogue +2, and perhaps Warlord a +1). It is already a mini-defense in the form of passive perception give it full-bore credibility with the +1/2 level + WIS or DEX or some such and be done with it. When someone wants to "actively" search, use thievery for traps, nature for tracks outdoors etc.
