Pets - are they animal companions too?

Tonguez said:
But as all the Police dogs, Guide dogs, Army dogs, farm dogs and hunting dogs prove any dog can be trained adequately for a variety of tasks (combat included)

I'm sorry, but no. Most dogs are not at all suitable for combat. Most dogs who enter guide dog, K-9, or even lower-stress contraband and explosive sniffing training fail to complete the course. These complex training courses take a very special animal, and which animals make it cannot be accurately predicted beforehand. Maybe your DM won't play it that way, but that's the way it is in real life.
 

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Not to mention most animals flee at the sight of anything scary, like say anything without the animal or humaniod desrciptor in its creature type.
You'll go through dogs so fast that you'll wonder why you even bothered. If you want to have a huge pack of dogs at low level, I guess thats fine, but don't expect more than one or two of them to be worth anything in a fight. And those ones will probably be fearless to the point of dying with the first three fights.
Dogs are like horses, they can be useful in a fight, but overall they will at best supplement your character.
Once you get past level 4 or so the dogs aren't really worth anything. It can be a cool roleplaying thing, but don't expect much of a combat advantage.
 

Well, I wouldn't say animals would outright run away. A good example to use, would be my two dogs. The first one, the male, is a coward, and would attempt to stay at a safe distance from anything he's never encountered before, and after he's had enough time to figure it out, might do something based on how it is reacting to.... my other dog, the female, will pounce on anything unexplained, if she doesn't know what it is, she'll eat it to find out.
 


I'm sorry, but no. Most dogs are not at all suitable for combat. Most dogs who enter guide dog, K-9, or even lower-stress contraband and explosive sniffing training fail to complete the course. These complex training courses take a very special animal, and which animals make it cannot be accurately predicted beforehand. Maybe your DM won't play it that way, but that's the way it is in real life.

I disagree here, police dogs and guide dogs are not rare, they just require a spesific breed of dog. Also, this is a fantasy game (focus on the words Fantasy, and Game), so I imagine breeding dogs and other animals for war is not a totaly foreign concept. Also dogs that have been with an owner since puppy stage, will often try to protect their master, even if they just bark (intimidate).

Ive asked for help about this too in regards to a character of mine in D&D 5th edition:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?405683-Pets-and-animals-that-are-not-companions

I know they are not (and should not be) as powerfull as Animal Companions, but considering time, gold, and effort is put into them, they shouldnt be utterly useless.
 

I disagree here, police dogs and guide dogs are not rare, they just require a spesific breed of dog. Also, this is a fantasy game (focus on the words Fantasy, and Game), so I imagine breeding dogs and other animals for war is not a totaly foreign concept. Also dogs that have been with an owner since puppy stage, will often try to protect their master, even if they just bark (intimidate).

Ive asked for help about this too in regards to a character of mine in D&D 5th edition:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?405683-Pets-and-animals-that-are-not-companions

I know they are not (and should not be) as powerfull as Animal Companions, but considering time, gold, and effort is put into them, they shouldnt be utterly useless.

In what way is a barking alarm with scent useless? Your not going to find many who agree with your train of thought. Personally 100% agree with umbram. I do like the point some one made that in greyhawk atleast dogs are indeed trained for war from a young age and probably would be slightly less inclined to flee than the average dog. Id just suggest scouring over a 1 st edition players handbook for some pretty good basic guidelines for the use of Guard Dogs at low level ^.^

Id also suggest to you that any such dog taken in this way in most RPG's would use a companion slot, now i know D&D does not require this but i would certinally hugely increase the DC for handeling a pack of 10 dogs by atleast 1 per dog, meaning your +10 is by no means the amount required to effectivly handle that many animals, even with some training.

When my house was raided for drugs there were 6 dogs twelve policemen, 2 policemen per dog, and u expect to handle 10?
 

In general, I would treat a pet and an animal companion much the same, and would not make a distinction between them all that much. I consider that the distinction primarily occurs at the level of the metagame, and not at the level of in game reality of the relationship. If you have sufficient skill to raise a pet for war, teach it the necessary tricks, and sufficient charisma to make it loyal to you, then it would act much the same as an animal companion and I would treat it as such - regardless of the edition in which it appears.

I would consider one of the main benefits of having 'animal companion' as a class feature would be that you get such a pet for free, without having to invest deeply in the time, skills, and money required to acquire such pets, train them, and gain their unswerving loyalty. It would be quite conceivable for a 'druid' in my game to over the course of a few years develop such a deep friendship with the animals in a particular area, that they all acted as his pets. In general, getting an animal to continue to do your bidding when you aren't around requires a lengthy relationship regardless of the charisma you have with animals. With an animal companion, you get that relationship basically instantly.

The other benefit, depending on the edition, is that you have a magical link with your animal companion that causes it to grow in power as you grow in power in a way that a mere pet would not. In this case, I suggest that the animal companions are actually animal spirits in corporeal form.

I would consider it unfair to treat attack dogs as NPCs deserving of their share of treasure unless for example, the horses you were mounted on, or the mule carrying the baggage, was treated the same. In such cases, I'd see this as unnecessarily punishing the player. I have on one occasion treated a pet as a henchman, but that 'pet' was really more of a DM PC that I added to the party because I only had two players in a low level game and they needed a bit of security to avoid too easy death spirals that come from having few characters in an adventuring party. If a PC initiates acquiring a pet of normal animal intelligence, I wouldn't treat that 'character' as a full henchman or allied NPC.

I would consider it completely in character and appropriate for an existing pet to become an animal companion in the event the class ability was gained later on, and would encourage that on RP grounds. However, I would not force that on a player.

Pets in general are quite handy at low levels, but tend to die in droves at higher levels. I also agree with the suggestion that the DC of handling multiple pets increases with the number involved. By the time you are above 4 or 5 dogs, you are really getting into super-heroic skill levels.
 
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3)You asked "What if I raise a pack of dogs who are loyal and loving...?" You'll note that "loyalty" does not appear in the Handle Animal skill - Handle Animal does not at all guarantee the level of loyalty one needs in combat.

I don't agree here. As someone who has grown up with dogs and gone hunting with them I don't think it is too much to ask for a dog to 'Attack', Fetch or even Track if it has been trained adequately and by a skilled trainer (at least +10ranks (maybe more)+mod + etc )

I agree that expecting a pet dog to act like Lassie is pushing it. But as all the Police dogs, Guide dogs, Army dogs, farm dogs and hunting dogs prove any dog can be trained adequately for a variety of tasks (combat included)

Well we're not talking about real-life dog training and how real life dogs can be loyal, rather, how to get the concept to work mechanically in game. Whether a dog is loyal or not cannot be forced mechanically in game, except by magical means. We're talking about game mechanics, not how real dogs are trained, nor how they are instilled with loyalty (there is no mechanic for that.)

By the rules, the only Animal Companions that can exist, are those that have Animal Friendship spell cast on them, or those under the control of a class that has Animal Companion class ability like Druid or Ranger. Animals trained by fighters, even if well trained (high animal handling skill ranks) are never Animal Companions.
 

By the rules, the only Animal Companions that can exist, are those that have Animal Friendship spell cast on them, or those under the control of a class that has Animal Companion class ability like Druid or Ranger. Animals trained by fighters, even if well trained (high animal handling skill ranks) are never Animal Companions.

But that is a non-answer. The question is not whether a pet is an 'Animal Companion' under the strict rules definition of that.

The question is, "Suppose I raise a puppy and train it to be a loyal companion and attack dog. How should one rule?"

To say that the pet is not an Animal Companion doesn't tell us anything. Are you suggesting that pets can't exist? Are you suggesting that by the rules, unless one has an Animal Companion and the appropriate spell that one can't have a pet? Most GMs run a game of D&D with a certain amount of verisimilitude to reality. The expectation is that, unless it is explicitly called out otherwise, that a player can expect that most actions that they would attempt work more or less like they would in real life. This is a necessary assumption to allow players to propose mundane interaction with a setting - objects can be lifted, turned over, doors can be opened and closed, food eaten, ect. This assumption allows all sorts of proposition resolution that would otherwise be impossible to be described in the rules themselves. The rules don't need to describe something as basic as 'objects are tangible and can be grasped', because this isn't a computer game.

And in real life, animal companions (small letters) are known without the use of an Animal Friendship spell. In a game world, the proposition by a player that they acquire a dog and raise it is reasonable for setting based on the expectation that pets are tamable without the use of magic. Saying that the animal companion is not an Animal Companion doesn't answer the question, "What is the status of this animal?" If it was obviously an Animal Companion, there would be no need to ask about the status.

In general, I'd say a 'pet' is like an Animal Companion in every way that isn't magical, but is generally restricted to being a normal domestic animal* and is not so easily replaced or trained. In general, my expectation is that a campaign without a lot of downtime, a lost pet is not replaceable. Creating a 'pet' relationship requires the expenditure of months or even years of downtime depending on the species. Training a pet while adventuring would be next to impossible, and at the very least would be much slower. In general, I find that often players start with the desire of having a pet, then eventually the pet gets killed and is never replaced. Later on, the players may purchase trained animals (usually steeds) but these 'pets' will not have the same loyalty that the starting pet had, and so - for example - are generally unreliable except when directly supervised. Left alone for a significant amount of time in unfamiliar surroundings they'll wander off, lose focus, become frightened or confused, and generally get into trouble. Only an extended period of familiarity can make an animal reliably loyal the way a spell can do in an instant.

In games without bounded accuracy, this has worked pretty well, as eventually things like men-at-arms and guard dogs become as much liability than assistance. One problem I foresaw when we first started getting 5e previews of monsters is that even mighty monsters are much more vulnerable to masses of 'commoners' than they were in earlier editions. So, I'm not sure how well this approach will still work, and if it doesn't what should be done about it. For 3.X though (and 1e) it works just fine.

*(I'd allow unusual creatures as pets only if raised from birth/hatching, only if of similar intelligence to an animal, and only if the trainer succeeds with more difficult skill checks.)
 
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