Pathfinder 2E PF2 house-rules / variant rules

[dave2008]

I realize there is not a large base of PF2 fans on EnWorld, but I don't see a lot of ideas about how to modify the game. So I was wondering if you play PF2 with house rules or variant rules, what are they and what are you trying to achieve with them.

 

[dave2008]

I am going to take this opportunity to link to some house-rule ideas as I find them:

• Hero Point Variant by @JThursby
• Variant Healing by @CapnZapp
• Gritty Low Magic by @miggyG777
• Caster Runes by @CapnZapp

 

[payn]

I've just been mulling the Paizo variants. I'll plug the free archetype. I find the classes too skimpy and multi-classing too confining. I think free archetype opens things up.

 

[kenada]

Here is a copy of the house rules I used when I ran PF2. If I were still running it, I’d probably drop the exploration procedure for the one I discuss here. They run very smoothly, and time management happens very organically. It’s much less clunky than watch-based systems and day-based systems.

I’m calling it out here because this was probably the best change I made. No one ever took advantage of flashbacks, but the other option got a decent amount of use at the table. It was inspired by this article on the Alexandrian (particularly re: fostering off-turn engagement).

HERO POINTS​

Add the following to the list of ways you can spend Hero Points.

• Spend 1 Hero Point to have a flashback where you retroactively prepare for the current situation. Flashbacks must not create paradoxes in the fiction, and they are subject to approval by consensus.
• Spend 1 Hero Point to increase the result of another player’s roll by one step. This is not a fortune effect.

Edit: Fixed the copy of the house rules to be the ones from PF2 instead of OSE.

 

[payn]

I just started a Forbidden Lands game. It uses a die system to track water, food, torches, etc. Here is how it works. A plentiful supply gives you a D12. At the end of the day (or determined point you must make a check) you roll the dice. On a 1 or 2 you drop a die size in supply. So, next check you are at D10 (D8, D6). If you run out of die, then you start getting hungry, thirsty, etc condition. At this point you need to buy more supplies or forage for more. In the case of torches, you need to spend time and have the materials and tools to make them.

So far, I am finding it to be one of my favorite supply tracking systems. It's pretty intuitive and easy to use. It allows you to make long distance travel and environment conditions matter, without all the complex minutia of older systems. I'd gank it for any number of games and systems. In PF2, the condition list is as long and can cover just about anything required to make this work.

 

[kenada]

I have a copy of the Forbidden Lands quickstart rules, though I’ve just scanned through them. One of the things I saw that I liked was having the players roll for things. One of the things I didn’t like running PF2 was the amount of secret rolls I’d end up making as a GM for Sense Direction and the like. I was still pretty heavily influenced by the Alexandrian’s procedure, but it was just so incredibly tedious.

The big problem I really wanted to solve was making tracking progress while exploring easy. That’s why the time-based version is so nice. I use a time-tracking sheet to track resources. Exploration is just a 4 by 6 grid of squares that I check off as the day progresses. I group the squares to determine hex progress. It’s very amenable to mental math, which is not the Alexandrian’s method does very well (especially if you use the tons of little modifiers).

Another idea I got from Gavin Norman is using a simple event roll instead of wandering monsters. Events have a singular table, and they’re weighted towards having interesting things versus not. While exploring, you’ll encounter landmarks and trails and stuff along with creatures. Events are rolled three times a day and occur much more frequently than random encounter checks with results did. The Alexandrian’s method has you rolling six times per day, and possibly three or four times per 1 (to determine location versus monster, then lair vs. trail vs. creature, then percentile roll for the result).

I also experimented with using the same structure in dungeon exploration. Halls of the Blood King had a d12-based table for random encounters. I just rolled a d20 every turn. For future dungeons, I’m thinking of using something like the following. This is just a template. The event stuff would probably be filled in with actual events. The idea is to roll every turn to keep things dynamic. The different versions are for whether the PCs are being careful or making noise (or were caught).

d12	Regular	High Alert
1	nothing	nothing
2	nothing	nothing
3	nothing	nothing
4	nothing	nothing
5	nothing	foreshadowing
6	foreshadowing	foreshadowing
7	foreshadowing	event
8	event	event
9	event	encounter
10	event	encounter
11	encounter	encounter
12	encounter	encounter

 

[dave2008]

I've just been mulling the Paizo variants. I'll plug the free archetype. I find the classes too skimpy and multi-classing too confining. I think free archetype opens things up.

Can you expand on this, I am not sure what you mean.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I've just been mulling the Paizo variants. I'll plug the free archetype. I find the classes too skimpy and multi-classing too confining. I think free archetype opens things up.

The classes work, but the archetype system is just too damn good. Honestly, Paizo should have just tossed players feats like they were candy, which is why I think Free Archetype and Ancestral Paragon are absolute must-haves. The nicest thing about PF2 feats is that they are largely meant to shape the character's niche, while the class itself will give the bonuses that make the player useful, so you can hand out a few extra ones and they won't suddenly be overpowered. I get why they might be conservative in that regard, but I wish they weren't.

Similarly I wish Paizo had been brave enough to just make Automatic Bonus Progression the standard. Let your Fighter do 4d2+5 with a butterknife, or 4d6+5 damage by hitting someone with a chair when they reach 12th level. That's f**ing awesome and characterful and let's lean into the idea that just about everyone can cause more damage at higher levels because they just get better at that s#!t. You tell someone that they can roll two damage dice instead of one at 4th level and they are going to absolutely freak, especially if they are used to playing martial characters.

I have a whole limited healing house rule somewhere on my computer (sorry, I'm a bit drunk right now, not gonna search for it) inspired/lifted from Worlds Without Number after @kenada told me about the mechanic. One of the worst parts about d20 healing is that there is basically no way to slow down a party for multiple days, which is what I feel I always want to do; I rarely have things you need to rush to do, and when I do I want those moments to feel particularly risky and frenetic. So I made up some rules based around the limited healing idea from that system. I haven't really tried it yet, but I want to in the future.

 

[kenada]

Can you expand on this, I am not sure what you mean.

Free Archetype is a variant that gives every character extra feats to take an archetype and customize it. From what I understand, it’s a very popular variant.

While I probably wouldn’t go as far as allowing any archetype, I’m inclined to allow martial characters to take a fighting style archetype at first level. If you want to be an e.g., dual-wielding barbarian, you can take Dual-Weapon Warrior and have at it. That addresses an issue some have where martial characters are siloed into their own feat trees, and if you want to play a particular concept, you better hope Paizo created class feats to support it. Giving martial characters a martial archetype for free obviates that problem.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Free Archetype is a variant that gives every character extra feats to take an archetype and customize it. From what I understand, it’s a very popular variant.

While I probably wouldn’t go as far as allowing any archetype, I’m inclined to allow martial characters to take a fighting style archetype at first level. If you want to be an e.g., dual-wielding barbarian, you can take Dual-Weapon Warrior and have at it. That addresses an issue some have where martial characters are siloed into their own feat trees, and if you want to play a particular concept, you better hope Paizo created class feats to support it. Giving martial characters a martial archetype for free obviates that problem.

It's basically the 5E equivalent of allowing Feats, honestly. And you should allow spell-casters an archetype if only to take the Spell Trickster archetype because it's great and I wish it had like 50 more feats to it.