PHB gods

[Grayswandir]

Sounds like fun to me, d12. Not quite the interpretation I'm used to, but interesting.

 

[der_kluge]

PHB Gods

My problem with the PHB/Grayhawk gods is that they just aren't very interesting. We used them starting out, but since then the DM has added his own from Birthright, where we are playing in. The gods would be OK if they actually had some sort of description about the church, the followers, customs, etc. I really like the "Faiths and Avatars" book because it just has so much more information on the gods. Granted, there are probably WAY too many, but the detail is excellent.

 

[d12]

Back on topic, it was my understanding that the racial gods given in the PHB (Corellon, Moradin, Gruumsh, Garl, Yondalla) were simply samples or examples of their respective pantheons, since the authors didn't want to deluge new gamers with too many gods. I do know that in the "full" pantheons, these are the primary deities. Can anyone shed light on this?

I'll try. The Forgotten Realms version of these pantheons are presented in the FRCS, although most of the gods in that book are limited to a simple description of portfolio, domains, favorite weapon, etc... I believe there is a download on the wizard's site that gives a fuller description of the rest of the FR deities. Each racial pantheon is headed by the diety listed in the PHB and has about 8-12 gods per pantheon.

I think the easiest thing for a DM to do is to have a huge list of gods to choose from (like in the FRCS or Living Greyhawk) and if you get a new player, just recommend 5-6 gods based on their PC and alingment and let them pick.

 

[Henry]

I found him useless (and a very silly name to boot), so I ignore him. He isn't there....

And with Greyhawk having multiple pantheon's... I didn't know that. But they don't present them as being part of different pantheons either.

How DARE you call Little Janice useless! (That's her name, by the way - in Scots Gaelic, I believe?)

And if you delve into Greyhawk history, you find that the current pantheon, just like the Forgotten Realms pantheon and many Real Earth Pantheons, is a conglomeration of many Suel, Oeridian, and Flanish Deities. Over the past 10,000 years or so, the deities speheres of influence overlapped and were absorbed by the winners of various wars, etc. - to form the Pantheon that is worshipped in Greyhawk now.

Wee Jas was the Suel Goddess of Magic and Death - other Suel Deities in the LGG include Bralm, Lendor, and Ralishaz. Wastri the Hopping Prophet was from Blackmoor, I believe? Heironeus was Oeridian, etc.

In the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer are all the Greyhawk deities you will ever need.

 

[Grayswandir]

Right. The FRCS lists what I think of as the "full" racial pantheons. These same pantheons were detailed in 2E in the Monster Mythology and On Hallowed Ground books. So it doesn't seem to me that they're specific to FR, but I could be wrong. Any Greyhawk fans know if the full deity list in Greyhawk includes these expanded racial pantheons? Or are the "big" racial gods in the PHB the only racial gods in GH?

 

[CobaltGrC]

I've never liked the gods in the PHB. In all the games I've played in the DM has never used them to add spice to the game. They've always just been an added attachment for clerics to get thier dominions from.

I've always liked the idea of gods haven't character, like the greek gods always causing trouble with mortal heros. I never got that from the PHB gods, they don't seem to fit with characters on a personal level.

 

[Fast Learner]

LOL! From the title I thought this thread was about people who had basically memorized the entire PHB!

 

[Grayswandir]

I've never liked the gods in the PHB. In all the games I've played in the DM has never used them to add spice to the game. They've always just been an added attachment for clerics to get thier dominions from.

I've always liked the idea of gods haven't character, like the greek gods always causing trouble with mortal heros. I never got that from the PHB gods, they don't seem to fit with characters on a personal level.

The main problem with gods taking a free hand in the world is that the PCs often feel inconsequential. Where gods meddle, the party can often do nothing to thwart them.

On the other hand, you might want to take a look at my post here. (I think that will work.) What I describe may be something like the flavor you're looking for.

 

[coyote6]

Right. The FRCS lists what I think of as the "full" racial pantheons. These same pantheons were detailed in 2E in the Monster Mythology and On Hallowed Ground books. So it doesn't seem to me that they're specific to FR, but I could be wrong. Any Greyhawk fans know if the full deity list in Greyhawk includes these expanded racial pantheons? Or are the "big" racial gods in the PHB the only racial gods in GH?

Most of the members (with the drow being the main exception) of the FRCS nonhuman pantheons originally appeared in Dragon magazine, long before FR was published by TSR (aside from Ed Greenwood's articles in Dragon).

Living Greyhawk Journal #3 (IIRC) had a long listing of Greyhawk deities, including elven, dwarven, gnome, and halfling gods. I think most of the appropriate gods from FRCS were there, though domains differed (e.g., the Greyhawk versions don't have any of the new domains from the FRCS--Dwarf, Elf, Metal, etc.). I'd have to check to be sure all the same gods were listed (the LGJ list is by power level -- greater, intermediate -- and not pantheon, so it's a bit involved to check).

Bah, I'll just type in the nonhuman gods in the LGJ list, and y'all can compare to FR. Assuming I don't miss any.

Dwarf:
Moradin
Berronar Truesilver
Clangeddin Silverbeard
Dumathoin
Vergadain
Muamman Duathal (slightly different name in FR, IIRC)
Gendwar Argrim (hero-god)

Elf:
Corellon Larethian
Aerdrie Faenya
Erevan Ilesere
Hanali Celanil
Labelas Enoreth
Sehanine Moonbow
Solonor Thelandria
Ye'Cind (demigod)
Gadhelyn (hero-god)

Gnome:
Garl Glittergold
Baervan Wildwanderer
Flandal Steelskin
Segojan Earthcaller
Gaerdal Ironhand
Roykyn (hero-god)

Halfling:
Yondolla
Arvoreen
Cyrrollalee
Sheela Peryroyl
Brandobaris
Charmalaine (hero-god)

So, there are a few missing -- the only one that jumps out at me is the elven woodlands god, Rillifane Rallathil -- and a few (the hero-gods) that aren't in the FRCS.

The preface to the list says, "Hundreds of deities are worshipped by the folk of the Flanaess. Nearly 100 are available as patrons for Living Greyhawk player characters. The list below contains all such entities." So it's really "merely" the list of official Living Greyhawk gods.

 

[Grayswandir]

Ah, so Greyhawk does indeed use the same "full" racial pantheons as FR and other settings - or perhaps more accurately they use the same racial pantheons as Greyhawk. Interesting that I've never heard of some of those gods, though - they must never have made it into the non-Greyhawk material.