PHB II: Druid Shapeshifter couple of quick Q's

[Phasics]

Could work it out from the PHB II

Is size increase bonuses to STR CON AC Base Attk and base dmg etc e.g. going from Medium to Large included in the stat bonuses each form gets.

For exmaple would the Ferocious Predator form which already gets a +8 STR and natural AC increase also get +8 STR from going from medium to Large size and get a dmg increase of 1d8 -> 2d6 and 1d6 -> 1d8 for the primary and secondary bite and claw attacks.

It could eb argued either way I'd just like a defintive answer if I've missed somthing while reading the PHB II about it


Second Q
Druid spells desinged to buff animal companion or natures ally, can these be used to target self during afull round action which inclussed the full casting and swift action of turning into the animal to recieve the buff. e.g. somthing like magic fang.

Third Q off topic
Is there a base shapeshifting class that isnt also a spell-caster ???
Why must I be a divine tree hugger to shift hehehe

 

[Phasics]

I guess since the bonuses are said to eb enchantment bonuses and not size bonuses that the size bonsues are added

but I'd still like a conformation if anyone has a link to a dev blog or FAQ or somthin

 

[Cactot]

PHB II killed wildshape

Unless there was some extra portion of rules in the book that i didnt catch, it seems like they have completely neutered both polymorph and shapeshift. It is now a glorified strength/dex buff, as pretty much everything else is either unchanged or made worse.

On top of removing the polymorph spell, and all the useful (and creative!) ways to manipulate the spell, and replacing it with mostly worthless fluff spells they also made the following changes, to make them even more useful:

-Monster's BAB, can be a big plus or minus depending on the creature, but even at its best, a minor benefit for divine casters. Much better for arcane than divine casters.
-Monster's saves are probably going to be worse for divine casters, possiblly better for arcane ones.
-If you get the monsters con (not sure on that) it doesnt matter, because your hitpoints dont change.
-But, you lose ALL your special abilities, so if you have +wis to ac, rage, improved trip, etc... you lose all of that.

While all this hurts polymorph pretty bad, it royally screws wildshape. If I am ever to play a druid again, it will be a variant that gets useful abilities instead of wildshape.

Basically what they did is make penalize players for being creative, functioning as a crutch for bad dm's as far as i am concerned. At the same time as they made "imbalanced" choices not workable (like that evil tree with a ton of attacks with a way low HD for its power) they took away perfectly clever uses, like using an umber hulk to dig through stone, or other neato stuff like that.

To make it short, if you couldnt tell, I don't much like the changes. Some of the other PHB II rules i love, just not those ones.

 

[glass]

Unless there was some extra portion of rules in the book that i didnt catch, it seems like they have completely neutered both polymorph and shapeshift. It is now a glorified strength/dex buff, as pretty much everything else is either unchanged or made worse.

On top of removing the polymorph spell, and all the useful (and creative!) ways to manipulate the spell, and replacing it with mostly worthless fluff spells they also made the following changes, to make them even more useful:

They didn't remove the polymorph spell: it's still right there in the PHB, and nothing in the PHBII can affect that.

They suggested that DMs might want to consider banning polymorph if it causes problems in their games, but that was in a web column and had nothing to do with the PHBII. And really, it was pretty obvious that if anything causes trouble in your game, you should consider banning it.

To make it short, if you couldnt tell, I don't much like the changes.

The only change* that PHBII makes to the polymorph spells in the PHB is that the have the polymorph subschool. All of the subschool's actual rules are overridden by alter self, and therefore by the spells that inherit from it.

While all this hurts polymorph pretty bad, it royally screws wildshape. If I am ever to play a druid again, it will be a variant that gets useful abilities instead of wildshape.

Since the errata a few months back, they can do what they like to polymorph and it will have no bearing on wildshape, as wildshape is no longer based on polymorph.

(* Of course, the PHBII can't actually change anything in the PHB, only the errata can do that, but adding subschool is technically an optional variant, but it is so trivial that I can't see anyone worrying too much about it).


glass.

 

[glass]

Second Q
Druid spells desinged to buff animal companion or natures ally, can these be used to target self during afull round action which inclussed the full casting and swift action of turning into the animal to recieve the buff. e.g. somthing like magic fang.

As I understand it, you loose class abilities (like spellcasting) when you shift, so you'd have to cast the buff first, then shift. So it depends on whether your are a valid target for the spell before you shift, which will depend on the spell in question.

Checking the SRD, magic fang is 'Target: Living creature touched', so it would work from that POV, but it requires you to specify a natural weapon at casting time so unless both forms share a natural weapon, that could be tricky. GMW (the all natural weapons form) would work fine though.

Third Q off topic
Is there a base shapeshifting class that isnt also a spell-caster ???

Not that I know of.


glass.

 

[Cactot]

I wasnt aware of that errata, I have been out of the game for awhile, thanks for the info. Now it functions like the alternate form special ability from the MM (from the phb 3.5 errata), is there any other relevant errata concerning wildshape that i should know of?

So as of now they:
keep int/wis/cha of original form
get str/dex/con keeping the base hp, and also has reflex/fort saves modified by new forms bonuses.
get all the abilities from their new form other than the supernatural/spell like ones

so i guess the MOMF is un-neutered at least.

sorry for the drama, but i assumed because it is the newest publication of the main rulebook, that it represented the official stand of WOTC as far as wildshape was concerned.

thanks,
Cactot


edit: OOHHHH! I just read the MM 3.5 errata, it turns out that they actually gave a stealth buff to the MOMF.
"If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in their new form changes size to match their new size."
So that means that my ironwood/dragonhide won't need the "wild" enchantment when turning into a troll, also carrying a shillelagh/spikes enchanted greatclub now just got a whole lot more practical. BUT on the downside they removed the ability for the con modifier to change your HP

 

[Patlin]

Shapeshift in PHB 2 is an alternate ability, wildshape is still alive and well. I like shapeshift, but the missed a few important tricks in my opinion. Why not an Aquatic Form, for example?

 

[Phasics]

Shapeshift in PHB 2 is an alternate ability, wildshape is still alive and well. I like shapeshift, but the missed a few important tricks in my opinion. Why not an Aquatic Form, for example?

Personally I dont see why you couldnt argue that a man sized shark isnt a vaild choice for Preadtor form. espically if the campaign has a large water component and your druids backstory incldues time he spent lviing/learning about aquatic nature.

 

[Tetsubo]

I really like the Spaheshift Druid option. I've always thought that a Druid should be able to assume an animal form (even if it is an iconic form) beginning at 1st level. The new PHBII rules do beg a few questions though:

Since the new forms grant a natural attack can the Druid benefit from the Improved Natural Attack Feat? I would rule Yes if I were the GM...

Since the Druids type does not change can they assume larger animal forms by using an Enlarge Person or Rightous Might spell? If not, can they benefit from the Animal Growth spell? I would rule that the former would apply...

Do spells or items that enhance natural attacks benefit the Druid in his new form? Such as Magic Fang or a Necklace of Fists?

 

[glass]

sorry for the drama, but i assumed because it is the newest publication of the main rulebook, that it represented the official stand of WOTC as far as wildshape was concerned.

PHBII insn't a 'main rulebook'. Despite the name, it is just a supplement like any other. The PHB is still the primary sorce for character abilities and general rules, PHBII doesn't (and can't) change that, any more than Complete Warrior or Races of Eberron.



glass.