[PHB II]Sorcerer Metamagic Specialist - Too Much?

[Seeten]

I like RAW for Wizards, and not for Sorcs because Sorcs blow and Wizards are ungodly potent. So, I loosen restrictions for Sorcs, so that they dont blow and approach more of the power level of wizards, whom they are supposed to rival.

 

[Mistwell]

So do you also think it is unfair that Sorcerers can Spontaneously Metamagic, but book-learners cannot?

I am not against the concept of a feat or ability that lets wizards spontaneously apply metamagic feats to prepared spells. In fact I think I have said as much in debates with you.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Madness! Heresy!

Two things I live for.

 

[Li Shenron]

I believe that the Familiar is worth more than a feat, so this alternative ability to having a familiar seems appropriately powerful.

Plus, Sorcerers were indeed weakened by 3.5, so no problem to give them a boost.

 

[Thanee]

Does Metamagic Specialist apply to metamagic rods, i.e. does it allow the sorcerer to use metamagic rods with no increase in casting time (using up one daily charge for the ability, of course)?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Imruphel]

Sorcerers IMC can spontaneously metamagic spells without an increase in casting time and have a wider skill list (all of the Cha-based skills, including Use Magic Device) and four skill points per level. Rather than making them overpowered, it makes them nearly as effective as wizards. Oh, and they also get bonus metamagic feats every five or so levels.

The big killer from a player's point of view is that they lag a level behind wizards in getting new spells. While that often doesn't matter in a "one-shot", it can make an enormous difference in a campaign.

 

[KarinsDad]

Thing is, Wizards can do the same thing, they just have to be a little craftier at it. A wizard can prepare quickened fireballs and scorching rays and the like, and cast 2 spells a round just like a sorc could if you allow quicken to work for them. Sorcs have the advantage in that they can quicken any spell they want, when they want. Wizards have the advantage in that they can quicken higher level spells, and they have more types of spells they can quicken. Each has an advantage in its own way.

Thing is, Sorcerers can do the same thing, they just have to be a little craftier at it. A Sorcerer with Arcane Preparation can prepare quickened fireballs and scorching rays and the like, and cast 2 spells a round just like a Wizard could. Sorcs have the advantage in that they can put other metamagic on any quickened spell they want, when they want. Wizards have the advantage in that they can quicken higher level spells (every other level), and they have more types of spells they can quicken. Each has an advantage in its own way.


Seriously here, what is good for the goose is good for the gander and vice versa. No real reason to change the rules.

The problem is not with Quicken. The problem is not with Spontaneous Metamagic.

The problem is with Spontaneous Quicken where the only limit is the number of higher level spell slots. Two spells per round on the fly until you run out of higher level spells is not balanced. Hence, the reason they nerfed Haste for 3.5.

Even with this Variant Sorcerer where they gave up the Familiar, the Sorcerer still is limited to 3+Int times per day. Even WotC recognized that this is potent and should be limited in some fashion. For a normal Sorcerer, it is limited in that he must take Arcane Preparation to do it and he is limited in what he prepares ahead of time.

However, the Variant Sorcerer would be smart to take Arcane Preparation and Incantrix and really kick butt with metamagic and Quicken spells.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Well, Incantrix is scary broken, just in going by the number of times it pops up in Character Optimization on the WotC forums.

But, if you take a look at mid-high-level Living Greyhawk play, where people squeeze every last ounce of effectiveness out of their characteres, Sorcerors pale in comparison to Wizards. Spontaneous casting is nice, but when you know all the spells inside and out, having a precise list augmented by pearls of power is far, far, far nastier.

I've got no problems with the alternate Sorceror ability. IMC, I also allow Sorcerors a bonus Heritage feat at first level(usually Draconic) and a bonus heritage or metamagic feat every 5 levels thereafter. Has it been a problem? Nope. I've also considered allowing the two dragonblood sorceror feats (reduce all metamagic level increases by 1, minimum 1 and use metamagic freely without a casting increase) available to sorcerors in general.

 

[Derren]

The problem is with Spontaneous Quicken where the only limit is the number of higher level spell slots. Two spells per round on the fly until you run out of higher level spells is not balanced. Hence, the reason they nerfed Haste for 3.5.

So? And what would you think would happen if a wizard pepares half of his spells as quickened? You have the same result.

 

[Kerrick]

Sorcerers IMC can spontaneously metamagic spells without an increase in casting time and have a wider skill list (all of the Cha-based skills, including Use Magic Device) and four skill points per level. Rather than making them overpowered, it makes them nearly as effective as wizards. Oh, and they also get bonus metamagic feats every five or so levels.

Same here. Do you give them a d6 HD too?

The problem is with Spontaneous Quicken where the only limit is the number of higher level spell slots. Two spells per round on the fly until you run out of higher level spells is not balanced. Hence, the reason they nerfed Haste for 3.5.

I've got a simple solution for that - just rule that you can't cast two spells in a round. Personally, I think casting multiple spells a round (at non-epic levels) is a bit powerful, and I play in a high-magic, high-power campaign.