PHB2 Feat Retraining question

[MarkB]

Actually, there are options in a few books, PHB2 and EtCR that immediately come to mind, where characters can "re-train" what are viewed as innate class abilities.

Paladins can drop the mount to gain a charging smite, Rogues can drop Uncanny Dodge at 4th level to get an ability to inflict a hefty AC penalty to a flanked foe, Clerics can drop Domain abiltiies and Turn Undead for some pretty powerful tricks (such as EtCR Destroy Undead, which the dwarf cleric proved last session can be utterly devastating to undead with low hit points). So the precident is there to retrain innate class abilities.

Sure, but only to alternative innate class abilities, and not using the PHB2's "Retrain a Feat" option, which is what the OP asked about.

That option may only be used to retrain feats received as feats, and only to other feats for which the character would have qualified when taking the original feat, and even then only if the feat you're losing isn't acting as a prerequisite for something else you have.

So for instance, even if you consider a 1st-level fighter's Shield Proficiency clqss feature to be a feat, you can't retrain it using the "Retrain a Feat" option, because a 1st-level fighter would not have had the option to swap it for another feat in the first place. If it wasn't an option then, it doesn't suddenly become an option later, even with Retraining rules.

 

[pawsplay]

Based on an individua DM's perception of d20 as a whole, yes they could.

But that would be incorrect. In the rules of D&D, only feats are feats, and while class features can imitate or replace a feat, unless it says you have a particular feat, it's not a feat.

 

[atomn]

I'd say no. I think the retraining rules are great for retconning a character, when the player made an error or poor choise, so that character stays enjoyable for the player. Retraining is good in such cases where a character took feats for an intended concept but in gameplay the character ended up going in a different direction. Or when a player took a feat that turns out to be worthless in that campaign. But if retraining is being used to school the system (which in this case is what's being done), it shouldn't be allowed. (In my opinion, of course.)

 

[jontherev]

In general NO, but if it's:
1. for roleplaying purposes, and
2. not overpowered (say, trying to swap shield proficiency for whirlwind attack)

then why not? If it makes for an interesting character concept, doesn't step on another class's area of expertise, and doesn't make him more powerful then I say go for it. For example, I wouldn't have an issue with a player who wanted to swap his shield proficiency for Dodge, but I'd rather do this at 1st level. This would be a house rule obviously. I don't think the PHB2 rules allow for this...it would be a DM call.

 

[Bryntryst]

Retraining armor/weapon proficiencies would be like retraining hit dice or skill points.

 

[Mistwell]

No.

I'd probably go hard on you just for asking actually

 

[Stormborn]

I would say that the character could not retrain it as a feat but that he could retrain it as a class feature, mainly because I am the kind of DM that whenever possible would prefer that players be happy with their characters. Also, his profficency with shields is actualy, IMO, better than a single feat so he is actually trading something more useful for something less useful so I would also allow that. However, although I do not normally use costs for gaining feats, skills, or class benifits (DMG 197), I would use the Retraining costs per the PHB2 and require that he have an in game explination. For example he could go to a legendary master of the spiked chain and pay him 500 gp to train him for a week. I would make it cost him not just giving up shields but also some roleplaying (and possibly a short adventure) and the gold.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

No.

I'd probably go hard on you just for asking actually

Just to set the record straight, I'm not the one asking the DM for the re-training. My Warblade is perfectly fine with Shield Proficiency, even if he's wielding a greatsword and (currently) doesn't make use of a shield.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I would not allow a character to retrain any set class ability. If you couldn't select it in the first place, you should not be able to change it later, IMO.

 

[AnonymousOne]

Rogues can drop Uncanny Dodge at 4th level to get an ability to inflict a hefty AC penalty to a flanked foe

Is that from PHB2?