PHB2 sold out!

[Drkfathr1]

Another thing to keep in mind, though it may not have that large of an impact, is how many individuals bought more than one copy? Some buy one for themselves, and then an extra for a spouse or for backup.

 

[Jack99]

[snipped a lot of assumptions]

I am pretty sure that since WotC do not reveal their sales, they aren't going to put the real numbers in a public document available for 8 cent or whatever unless they are absolutely forced to. However, I am not well enough versed in US law to say if they have some leeway in how precise those numbers are supposed to be. Could it be just a ball-park figure, or even a number to show off that they have sold a lot?

I do not know, and to be honest, I do not really care anymore. I have realized that no matter what, some people want 4e to be a failure, and no matter what information released, they will twist and bend things to make it fit their point of view. Could they be right? Sure. Maybe I am the one who has been wearing rose-tinted glasses, arguing for what seems obvious to me. But I must admit that after this week, I no longer care if the rest of the world thinks 4e is a failure or not, or if 100.000 or 6 million gamers play 4e.

Come the end of the year, I will have everything I need (not that I won't want more) to play 4e until th end of time. D&D has an incredible back catalogue, and I own a good chunck of it. So, in the event that you are indeed correct, I will be sad for about 3.1 second, and then go back playing with my friends, which I have been doing for 20 years now.

Cheers, and good luck.

 

[Obryn]

I just don't get people who can see the words "sold out" and "bestseller list" in connection with a 4e book and come to the conclusion that 4e must be failing. Really? Seriously?

People with an agenda to push can interpret almost any number to favor their position, if they work at it.

-O

 

[ExploderWizard]

I believe that someone in an "official" capacity mentioned that they are looking at other ways of implementing DRM.

If you are hemorrhaging, usually the first line of treatment is to stop the bleeding. Often by any means necessary. Sometimes a tourniquet is the only way to do that, and sometimes using a tourniquet means that you lose a limb.

What if WotC figured that PDF's that they provide are part of that hemorrhage? What if those products that are out of print are also being pirated from the copies that WotC provides. Then maybe their actions are not pure BS after all.

You make an interesting point so lets look at the effects of this bleeding:

4E pdfs- Absolutely. Anyone who would bother to steal a 4E pdf obviously wants the material. This is a direct threat to sales of current product.

Prior Edition pdfs- ??. The revenue stream for printed copies is dry. The only source of income from this IP is electronic sales. In this case we are not bleeding revenue, we are in effect denying ourselves the only source of income this material provides. This just means that customers who would like to provide revenue for these products cannot do so.
This doesn't stop the piracy of these products it simply turns it into the only option.

 

[aboyd]

I am pretty sure that since WotC do not reveal their sales, they aren't going to put the real numbers in a public document available for 8 cent or whatever unless they are absolutely forced to.

I'm pretty sure that if the numbers in their court filings are "not real numbers" then their case is in deep doodoo. I've seen both Microsoft and the RIAA try similar tactics with the US court system, and even though they're both powerful, they both got their butts kicked by the judges.

 

[Kask]

I just don't get people who can see the words "sold out" and "bestseller list" in connection with a 4e book and come to the conclusion that 4e must be failing. Really? Seriously?

Yep, I don't see how anyone, with the data provided by WotC, can say it is failing or succeeding. Those terms are subjective. What is the criteria used to determine? All anyone outside the company can do is show objective statistics (hard to come by).

 

[Treebore]

I'm pretty sure that if the numbers in their court filings are "not real numbers" then their case is in deep doodoo. I've seen both Microsoft and the RIAA try similar tactics with the US court system, and even though they're both powerful, they both got their butts kicked by the judges.

Yep, before this case is over we will see precise numbers, even so the "hundreds of thousands" sold is still accurate enough for my "assumptions" to be close enough, no matter how much others may think.

For the record, I do not want WOTC to fail, I want them to be a good company that is responsive and considerate of their customers in a positive manner. I wish WOTC's numbers were in the millions, and not in the hundreds of thousands, simply because I want a large robust RPG community, and WOTC can lead to that result.

However we now know that WOTC isn't nearly as big as we, or at least I, once thought. They are far smaller. Which unfortunately indicates this hobby I love so much is probably not nearly as large and robust as I thought it was.


Now if WOTC continues to disregard its law abiding customers and continues to do things in heavy handed and inconsiderate manners, then yes, I do hope they fail. I would rather they learn to do better, and stay in business though.

If WOTC wants to do better they should hire Lisa from Paizo, or Erik. They know how to run a company in a positive manner. Or at least consult with them on a game plan to improve their customer service and responsiveness.

 

[DaveMage]

I just don't get people who can see the words "sold out" and "bestseller list" in connection with a 4e book and come to the conclusion that 4e must be failing. Really? Seriously?

If that was the only info we had ("sold out" and best seller"), then you're correct, you could not conclude in any way shape or form that 4E was failing. It's the reports from industry insiders and distributors that have cast a long shadow.

It's also the idea that the job of marketing at WotC is to make things appear to be as rosy as possible, and therefore anything that is said by WotC reps should not simply be taken at face value (IMO). Granted, this is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

[Ourph]

If that was the only info we had ("sold out" and best seller"), then you're correct, you could not conclude in any way shape or form that 4E was failing. It's the reports from industry insiders and distributors that have cast a long shadow.

I have yet to see any reliable information from any source that indicates the PHBII was anything less than a success. If you've got better information than I do, please share.

It's also the idea that the job of marketing at WotC is to make things appear to be as rosy as possible, and therefore anything that is said by WotC reps should not simply be taken at face value (IMO). Granted, this is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

I don't really pay attention to what WotC is saying. I'm talking about facts from unbiased sources (like retailers selling out of a title while that same title is on best seller lists) and the oddball reasoning that it takes to interpret that good news as evidence that the book in question is doing poorly.

 

[Remathilis]

I believe there is a number of reasons for D&D's success of failure, but (like religion or politics) it solely depends on what you already believe BEFORE looking at the data.

There are plenty of people who want 4e to be a success: They like the system, they want a successful D&D in any format, they are WotC gushers, etc. They will see things like "sold out" and "bestseller list" as vindication of their belief.

Then there are people who want 4e to fail: its not their "D&D", they actively support another game system, they want D&D sold off, they are WotC haters, etc. They look at some numbers, create a spin, and see that sky falling as vindication of their belief.

Sadly, there is nothing the one can say to the other that will change their mind.