D&D 3E/3.5 PHB3.5 UMD example question

[Len]

In this example, it's not a matter of figuring out how the thing works. Lidda knows how it works - you have to be a cleric to work it. The UMD roll is to try to act like a cleric. If Lidda succeeds, she emulates a cleric and activates the chalice. But that doesn't mean that she's a cleric for the rest of her life! It's only while she's trying to activate that item. Next time she does it, she has to try to act like a cleric again.

The "activate blindly" application of UMD is a bit different. If you succeed on that one, you get a +2 bonus because you now have some idea of how the item works. This is explicitly stated under "activate blindly" (but not under "emulate a class feature").

 

[Sil]

Thanks Len;
Specificaly i desire to know if she activates it the next round, what would you say the DC should be? The first round she only needed to be a first level cleric.

Would not a second round attempt require she need a higher level cleric?

 

[Len]

I don't think she has to emulate a higher level cleric the second time. She didn't really become a cleric; she doesn't have a number of turn attempts per day she's using up. The UMD check enables her to channel energy as a cleric at that particular moment. If she does it again later, the two attempts are independent of each other.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Thanks Len;
Specificaly i desire to know if she activates it the next round, what you you say if the DC? The first round she only needed to be a first level cleric.

Would not a second round attempt require she need a higher level cleric?

Um, no. The cleric's level is entirely irrelevant as clerics and paladins do not get more turning attempts based on their level.

 

[Len]

Oops, that's right. So the question would be, could Lidda run out of turning attempts? And my answer would be No.

 

[Sil]

Heh. Well of course. It is 3 +Cha mod.

Sorry for my error. The the question becomes, should she have to "Emulate ability score" to get over 3?

If not it seems strange that a UMD user can activate the item more times than the actual class.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Oops, that's right. So the question would be, could Lidda run out of turning attempts? And my answer would be No.

Nope. (As in, I agree - Lidda cannot run out of turning attempts.)

Similarly, a cleric with ranks in UMD could pick up the chalice and either:

1. Spend a turning attempt and use it automatically
2. UMD it, not spend a turning attempt, and maybe fail (catastrophically?)

Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

 

[Sil]

Does the cant activate rule mean she cannot activate it with a turning attempt?

Oh, and thanks for the answers.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I might be way off base here, but I don't think UMD will activate this device. Here's my reasoning:
UMD allows a character to emulate an ability in order to use a magic item. It does not give the user the ability to actually perform that ability. If the item said 'Use a command word to turn X amount fo normal water into holy water. The user must have the ability to turn undead to use this item,' then UMD work brilliantly. If the item states 'Use a daily turning attempt to turn X amount of normal water into holy water,' then UMD does not give the user the ability to actually turn undead and the attempt would fail.

The example in the PH is flawed (IMO) becaue it states that emulating an ability does not allow you to use that ability, and that using that ability is called for with this particular magic item. Maybe I'm being quirky and looking for semantics here.

AFAIK this would not crop up very often, as very few items have such requirements, so I don't believe this is a harsh reading. I just don't think that it makes sense for a UMD user to be able to pump out liter after liter of holy water while a true cleric can mabye make 1/2 liter (if that).

As I said, maybe off base. If so, call me out.

By the way, using continuing effects requires a check every hour in order to maintain the effect.

 

[Sil]

Called out.

The "cant use" line is to prohibit any use other than activate items. You cant emulate being a cleric, and turn undead, while NEAR a magic item or some such. The next sentance says "It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature." So for the purpose of activating magic items only, you have that feature and can use that feature to activate items, only.