PHBIII and IV: Oriental Adventures?

[Jhaelen]

Now look at spells in 4e. I take an existing wizard spell, vary the damage it deals, change the defense it targets, and voila...a new spell of another school? It is more like painting an apple orange and trying to pass it off as an orange.

I mean, what's the point of even bothering to differentiate them if they are all just minor variations of one another?

I've read about that argument before, only the last time it was about all of the classes being basically identical since all use powers.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Look at 3e, and compare the mechanics for illusion spells to spells from the other schools, such as conjuration or transmutation. While they are all arcane spells, the manner in which they work is more like apples and oranges, rather than just different types of apples. They are just that fundamentally different.

Now look at spells in 4e. I take an existing wizard spell, vary the damage it deals, change the defense it targets, and voila...a new spell of another school? It is more like painting an apple orange and trying to pass it off as an orange.

I mean, what's the point of even bothering to differentiate them if they are all just minor variations of one another?

Pretty much how the Hero system works. 1d6 of energy blast is 5 points and it's for whatever you decide on. Things that come after that, like variable effect, other things you can do with it, etc... are right up there.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I think Wizards made a mistake in naming the first arcane class "wizard." "Evoker" or something else would've worked better. Whenever someone sees the Illusionist they're inevitably going to think "So...why isn't my guy a wizard too?"

Aside from that, I REALLY hope Wizards takes a good, long, hard look at both of the samurai classes in 3e, so they can get a great show of what not to do.

 

[Ranger REG]

I think Wizards made a mistake in naming the first arcane class "wizard." "Evoker" or something else would've worked better. Whenever someone sees the Illusionist they're inevitably going to think "So...why isn't my guy a wizard too?"

Meh.

If the wizard class resembles more like an evoker-wizard, then there is a design flaw. Then again, most wizard players prefer evocation spells.

Aside from that, I REALLY hope Wizards takes a good, long, hard look at both of the samurai classes in 3e, so they can get a great show of what not to do.

That depends. Are you referring to the 3.0e Oriental Adventures version, or the ridiculous 3.5e Complete Warrior version? In my earlier post, I shuddered at Caliber's admiration of his exposure to the CW version.

 

[Center-of-All]

I think the reference to both samurai classes means just that, both. And they were both absolutely terrible in terms of design

 

[Ranger REG]

I think the reference to both samurai classes means just that, both. And they were both absolutely terrible in terms of design

Well, I initially hated the first 3e samurai class (in OA) because it is so wrapped up in Rokugan trappings and elements.

Then 3.5e Complete Warrior came along, and that samurai class literally made me retched (wish I have the picture to show you, vomit in the toilet bowl and all). That class is so one-dimensional that I can look at OA samurai class with more tolerance.

 

[Jhaelen]

I think Wizards made a mistake in naming the first arcane class "wizard." "Evoker" or something else would've worked better.

Yep. I think that would have been better given the smaller focus of the current wizard class. Especially since they must already have known, they'd have to create separate classes for illusionists, necromancers, enchanters, etc.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I am personally not seeing the point of differentiating all the various power sources like that. What's the use, when they all just end up working the same at the end of the day? Best example is the web article on illusions - they are mechanically identical to PHB wizard's spells.

Some terrible "illusion" spells does not mean that all illusion spells must be terrible. If nothing else, they're probably all going to be better than that, from here on out.