Philosophical question: Do games become "obsolete"?

[Teflon Billy]

I think games do become obsolete. You can still play them, obviously, but many had problems that weren't apparent at time, but did become apparent and were fixed in later editions...

That succinctly sums up my feelings on the matter.

Not all games become obsolete, but if a new edition came out that markedly improved onthe previous one...the it has made it's predecessor obsolete.

All that's up for argument is a definition of "better", unless you are a glutton for punishment and enjoy playing "worse" games

 

[skinnydwarf]

<SNIP>evolution implies progress.<SNIP>

[threadjack]
If you are thinking of evolution in a biological sense, evolution does *not* imply progress. There is no endpoint creatures are evolving towards, they are simply adapting to a changing environment (and not always for the "better" in terms of surival due to factors like sexual selection).

Disclaimer: I am not a biologist, so if I am wrong, please correct me.
[/threadjack]

Since this is a biological comment, I don't think I'm going too close towards the dreaded religion/politics line. Apologies if I have.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

That succinctly sums up my feelings on the matter.

Not all games become obsolete, but if a new edition came out that markedly improved onthe previous one...the it has made it's predecessor obsolete.

But the problem is that whether or not a game is a "marked improvement" is often a matter of debate.

Is BAB an improvement over THAC0? Depends on what your criteria for "improvement" is.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

[threadjack]
If you are thinking of evolution in a biological sense, evolution does *not* imply progress. There is no endpoint creatures are evolving towards, they are simply adapting to a changing environment (and not always for the "better" in terms of surival due to factors like sexual selection).

Disclaimer: I am not a biologist, so if I am wrong, please correct me.
[/threadjack]

Since this is a biological comment, I don't think I'm going too close towards the dreaded religion/politics line. Apologies if I have.

Your point is largely irrelevant, because Vindicator's point was that when "evolution" is used to describe RPGs, it *is* used to imply progress.

 

[skinnydwarf]

Your point is largely irrelevant, because Vindicator's point was that when "evolution" is used to describe RPGs, it *is* used to imply progress.

Maybe so. Just doing my part to correct misinformation where I can.

 

[Aidan mac Culloch]

It seems that the issue under the fiercest debate is most one of semantics. To that end, I flipped open the dictionary. The first definition for obsolete is: "no longer in use". Certainly we can all agree that by this measuring stick, games are not obsolete...people still use them, play them, and enjoy them. The second definition seems to be what is being argued: "outmoded in design, style, or construction". The answer to this appears to me to be too subjective to say yeah or nay straight out. Some people probably feel an earlier version of a game is outmoded, whereas others may feel there has been no improvement in later versions. It is interesting to note that the example phrase was technological in nature i.e. an obsolete locomotive. Clearly the second definition is simpler to justify when objective criteria exist. For games, I don't believe those objective criteria exist. So I place myself in the "games are not obsolete, regardless of version" camp.

 

[Psion]

There's a whole group of gamers who are obsessed with having the KEWL NEW GAME1! and who immediately describe the out-of-print game as "obsolete", as if it were an 8-track tape player or something.

I think there are two different issues here:
1) "Technological improvement" - I disagree with the notion that games can't be improved over time like tecnology, but I do agree that new does not mean improved. It's only rational that those who spend time to consider what went wrong with their past games can act to correct them, but not all designers have this degree of introspection and not all attempts at improvement result in measurable, bona fide improvement. And the whole issue is wrapped up in subjectivity.

2) Obsolete-ness of out of print games actually has little to do with obsoleteness in the technological sense. More often, it's just the influx of fresh material that keeps a game alive. When a game has elements that you are too familiar with, with no change or influx of new ideas to keep it fresh, many people become disenchanted, bored with it. The best ideas for games last longer, but can't last forever. This has nothing to do with technology. Even the best game with the slickest most well thought out mechanics and most dazzlingly written background will get old, and fans will fall away if they don't get an influx of fresh material.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

More often, it's just the influx of fresh material that keeps a game alive. When a game has elements that you are too familiar with, with no change or influx of new ideas to keep it fresh, many people become disenchanted, bored with it.

I heard this crazy rumor that some gamers out there use their "imagination". Ah, it's probably just an urban legend.

 

[Dr. Screampunk]

I heard this crazy rumor that some gamers out there use their "imagination". Ah, it's probably just an urban legend.

It's a little depressing, frankly, how few gamers actually use their imaginations and instead rely on a steady supply of shiny new books to stimulate their creativity. In fact, most DMs I've known over the years (and especially these days) show little creativity or imagination at all, and instead spend all their time (a) memorizing rules, (b) looking up new feats and prestige classes, and (c) eagerly studying the latest Forgotten Realms book. Imagination? Creativity? What's that?

 

[Psion]

I heard this crazy rumor that some gamers out there use their "imagination". Ah, it's probably just an urban legend.

Sarcasm. Cute.

I invite you to consider what I wrote instead of assuming that I am saying that people can't or don't use their imagination. I have said nor implied nothing of the sort.