Pimp my sorcerer!

[cignus_pfaccari]

In the Eberron game I'm in, the DM has indicated that when we hit epic level, we'll have a chance to do a switchout. After one too many monsters with auras, I'm thinking of switching my avenger to something ranged, and I've really wanted to try a sorcerer.

I went human for the extra at-will, and this way I have one at-will that targets each NAD, and one that can be used as a basic attack. I thought about going Wild Magic for the fun with Chaos Bolt, but the rest of it irritates me.

I took Arcane Admixture twice to get the benefit of the Essence Mage class feature on two of my at-wills, and also to make sure I don't encounter too many resistances. And, to be honest, I couldn't think of other paragon-level feats to take.

Suggestions?

Brad


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Wil, level 21
Human, Sorcerer, Essence Mage, Champion of Prophecy
Build: Storm Sorcerer
Spell Source: Storm Magic
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Staff)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Lightning
Arcane Admixture II: Arcane Admixture Lightning II
Prophetic Blessing: Prophetic Blessing Dexterity
Prophetic Blessing: Prophetic Blessing Charisma
Arcane Admixture Power: Dragonfrost
Arcane Admixture II: Chaos Bolt
Background: Seer (+2 to Bluff)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 12, Dex 23, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 27.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 17.


AC: 34 Fort: 29 Reflex: 33 Will: 38
HP: 124 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 31

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +16, Arcana +16, Diplomacy +23, Intimidate +23, Bluff +25

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Dungeoneering +10, Heal +10, History +11, Insight +10, Nature +10, Perception +10, Religion +11, Stealth +16, Streetwise +18, Thievery +16, Athletics +12

FEATS
Human: Action Surge
Level 1: Impending Victory
Level 2: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 4: Distant Advantage
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Staff)
Level 10: Unarmored Agility
Level 11: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 12: Paragon Defenses
Level 14: Arcane Admixture
Level 16: War Wizardry
Level 18: Sorcerous Reserves
Level 20: Arcane Admixture II
Level 21: Sorcerer Implement Expertise

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Lightning Strike
Sorcerer at-will 1: Dragonfrost
Sorcerer at-will 1: Chaos Bolt
Sorcerer encounter 1: Thunder Slam
Sorcerer daily 1: Howling Tempest
Sorcerer utility 2: Sorcerous Sirocco
Sorcerer encounter 3: Thundering Gust
Sorcerer daily 5: Serpentine Blast
Sorcerer utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer encounter 7: Thunder Bomb
Sorcerer daily 9: Howling Hurricane
Sorcerer utility 10: Sorcerous Pulse
Sorcerer encounter 13: Primordial Storm (replaces Thundering Gust)
Sorcerer daily 15: Prismatic Lightning (replaces Howling Tempest)
Sorcerer utility 16: Dominant Winds
Sorcerer encounter 17: Thunderstroke (replaces Thunder Slam)
Sorcerer daily 19: Prismatic Explosion (replaces Serpentine Blast)

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Crown of the Brilliant Sun (paragon tier), Bracelet of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Magic Efreetweave Armor +5, Stone of Storms (paragon tier), Siberys Shard of the Mage (paragon tier), Deep-Pocket Cloak +5, Accurate staff of Ruin +4, Spark Slippers (paragon tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Mentat55]

I am no optimization guru, but a few small suggestions:

1. I think Lightning Daggers is a pretty sweet daily power (level 15), because it adds 2d4+static bonuses damage each round for a free action, for an entire encounter. I might consider it over Prismatic Explosion at level 19 -- you've invested a lot in having a very large damage bonus, and Lightning Daggers would play off that.

2. You could retrain Paragon Defenses for Robust Defenses at level 21.

3. With those extra points in Str and Con (since you want Sorcerer Implement Expertise), you might consider Leather Armor Proficiency -> Hide Armor Proficiency over Unarmored Agility, depending if you want to invest the feats.

4. If you are interested in taking advantage of feats like Oncoming Storm, Echoes of Thunder, Solid Sound, Resounding Thunder, it might be cool to change up one of your Arcane Admixture powers to thunder. Then you can mix and match to create the effect you want (more damage, better defenses, bigger area coverage, etc). In particular, Resounding Thunder would benefit several of your powers. Feats you consider getting rid of would be War Wizardry, Distant Advantage, Sorcerous Reserves, and Impending Victory.

 

[Aulirophile]

I would really not recommend human for a Sorc. You're a striker, doing damage is your thing. At best humans will always do -1 damage per target (the reality is worse, many good Sorc powers get a secondary damage roll that doesn't get cha, but does get your other modifiers (dex or str). Flame Spiral being the perfect example. As an AE striker, that adds up.

I've never played a Storm Sorc (Wild and Dragon). Dragon Sorcs are definitely front-line happy. Close bursts/blast spells and all the defensive spells get a bonus from being Dragon (Sudden Scales). I think Storm is probably more reliable then Wild (rolling a 1 as a Wild Magic Sorc can be a combat changer.. in a bad way), so I don't have a ton of suggestions for optimizing that particular Sorc build.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I would really not recommend human for a Sorc. You're a striker, doing damage is your thing. At best humans will always do -1 damage per target (the reality is worse, many good Sorc powers get a secondary damage roll that doesn't get cha, but does get your other modifiers (dex or str).

Probably true, but there is one special case that admittedly does not apply to the OP: If the character is to be used in early heroic-tier only, the human can take Arcane Reserves to add +2 bonus to all at-will powers, which should on average more than make up for the -1 damage.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

In Eberron go for A half-elf Storm sorcerer with the Lyrander Paragon path(cha+dex+con on thunder and lightning damage sorcerer powers).

 

[DracoSuave]

I would really not recommend human for a Sorc. You're a striker, doing damage is your thing. At best humans will always do -1 damage per target (the reality is worse, many good Sorc powers get a secondary damage roll that doesn't get cha, but does get your other modifiers (dex or str). Flame Spiral being the perfect example. As an AE striker, that adds up.

Unless you go into 60 round combats, one single point of damage per attack is such a drop in the bucket that it will NOT impact the combat length. You still kill most enemies in as many hits and rounds, and that is the -real- measuring stick of striker performance.

And humans, last I checked, still have the BEST racial feats in the entire game. +3 to hit on an AoE character's daily? Check. Bonus to all saves? Check. That said, I'd probably have gone Half-elf for this.

That said, at epic, min max your encounter powers more than your at-wills. Altho... as a sorcerer, you can get away with it because most of your damage is from your class features.

Also, Rising Fury is better than weapon focus. You should have put points in Con for that, leaving your attributes Con, Dex, and Cha, and having a better defensive spread. Strength you do not need.

Mark of the Storm and Lyrander Windrider might be better tho. Does Essence Mage beat +1 to hit and +Con Mod to all your powers?

 

[Aulirophile]

Unless you go into 60 round combats, one single point of damage per attack is such a drop in the bucket that it will NOT impact the combat length. You still kill most enemies in as many hits and rounds, and that is the -real- measuring stick of striker performance.

1xnumber of enemies hit+number of extra damage rollsxnumber of enemies hit, would be the reality. Sorcs try and hit a minimum of two people per attack, and often at epic will hit a minimum of two people 3+ times per round (dailies that attack again as a minor, quickened spellcasting, recasting on crits, WLMR, the list goes on), with out of turn attacks thrown in. The realistic difference can be as high as ~20 damage/round from that 1 stat point. Which is significant, since the benchmark DPR for Strikers is 20/40/60.

He also needs the 13 starting str to get Sorc Implement Expertise, which considering the # of attack rolls and the class synergy with crits, is a feat you absolutely want to have. I've played two Sorcs from 1-30 and the damage from, for instance, TWF added up a lot on both characters. Which is "just" +1.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I am no optimization guru, but a few small suggestions:

1. I think Lightning Daggers is a pretty sweet daily power (level 15), because it adds 2d4+static bonuses damage each round for a free action, for an entire encounter. I might consider it over Prismatic Explosion at level 19 -- you've invested a lot in having a very large damage bonus, and Lightning Daggers would play off that.

I'll keep that in mind. The wording seems to indicate it only goes against the same target, but I may be reading that too conservatively. It is certainly attractive, though.

2. You could retrain Paragon Defenses for Robust Defenses at level 21.

3. With those extra points in Str and Con (since you want Sorcerer Implement Expertise), you might consider Leather Armor Proficiency -> Hide Armor Proficiency over Unarmored Agility, depending if you want to invest the feats.

I'm not *that* concerned about defenses as much, at least, not for hide armor proficiency.

4. If you are interested in taking advantage of feats like Oncoming Storm, Echoes of Thunder, Solid Sound, Resounding Thunder, it might be cool to change up one of your Arcane Admixture powers to thunder. Then you can mix and match to create the effect you want (more damage, better defenses, bigger area coverage, etc). In particular, Resounding Thunder would benefit several of your powers. Feats you consider getting rid of would be War Wizardry, Distant Advantage, Sorcerous Reserves, and Impending Victory.

The original build was a tiefling, multiclassed into wizard, who'd Arcane Admixtured the cosmic sorcerer at-will, so he could have a d4+d6 radiant & thunder burst 2 at-will with Resounding Thunder.

I would really not recommend human for a Sorc. You're a striker, doing damage is your thing. At best humans will always do -1 damage per target (the reality is worse, many good Sorc powers get a secondary damage roll that doesn't get cha, but does get your other modifiers (dex or str). Flame Spiral being the perfect example. As an AE striker, that adds up.

True. When I looked back at work and saw the Dex of 23, I nearly cried. I had thought about a halfling.

On the other hand, I'm trying to invest in making sure I can hit. That's the main reason for the human, as well as the Distant Advantage and Impending Victory feats; odds are that something will be flanked and I'll wind up using a lot of at-wills, and monsters hopefully spend half their lives bloodied. And the three at-wills give me a reasonable way of making sure I always have something I can target.

I've never played a Storm Sorc (Wild and Dragon). Dragon Sorcs are definitely front-line happy. Close bursts/blast spells and all the defensive spells get a bonus from being Dragon (Sudden Scales). I think Storm is probably more reliable then Wild (rolling a 1 as a Wild Magic Sorc can be a combat changer.. in a bad way), so I don't have a ton of suggestions for optimizing that particular Sorc build.

One of the reasons I'm switching is that we're kind of melee-heavy. Of the five regulars, we've got a fighter, a ranger, an avenger, a melee druid, and a bard, who's the only reliable ranged character. A dragon sorcerer wouldn't necessarily help, and I'd have a lot more friendly fire.

Thanks for the feedback, guys! Anything more?

Brad

 

[DracoSuave]

1xnumber of enemies hit+number of extra damage rollsxnumber of enemies hit, would be the reality. Sorcs try and hit a minimum of two people per attack, and often at epic will hit a minimum of two people 3+ times per round (dailies that attack again as a minor, quickened spellcasting, recasting on crits, WLMR, the list goes on), with out of turn attacks thrown in. The realistic difference can be as high as ~20 damage/round from that 1 stat point. Which is significant, since the benchmark DPR for Strikers is 20/40/60.

Theorycrafted DPR doesn't count damage loss from overkill. And theorycrafting what's good for a multihitting aoe guy isn't so good given that Storm Mages don't do as much of that. Theorycraft about a character should be relevant to that character.

Let's say your on-paper DPR is 43, and mine is 42. We're both attacking otherwise identical monsters, each with 440 hit points. (This is an example to illustrate the math here) What is our -actual- DPR?

Well, we both take 11 rounds to kill our respective monsters. In reality, our DPRs are exactly the same: 40 DPR. Why? Because in your case, you dealt 473 damage to your mob, which wasted 33 damage, and I dealt 462, which only wasted 22 damage.

Damage above that needed to defeat a monster does not count, it's wasted hps of damage, and in terms of a striker's job, defeating monsters quicker, the more accurate measuring stick would be how many theoretical rounds it takes to defeat a monster, not how much DPR you output.

Yes, more DPR is better, but DPR suffers from diminishing returns, as it's not effective in an additive sense, but a reciprocal sense. DPR's usefulness is based on the formula F=cieling[h/d] where h is the hitpoints of the enemy, and d is the DPR of the ability, and F is an integer. If h/d is 5.1 or 5.9 it does not matter, because F still comes out to 6. They are the exact same number.

This DOES mean that there are certain hit point levels where one point of DPR will matter; where it will mean one less round of combat. However, the other problem is that the higher your DPR is, the less often this occurs, rendering that one point of DPR more and more meaningless. Contrast that with the utility of that extra at-will power, and eventually, one more at-will becomes more powerful than that one less round you rarely ever see.

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In retrospect tho, I shouldn't have pointed out the 13 strength as the problem. 17 charisma's what's really costing you the three points to put into constitution, which opens up a far better paragon path and feat choices than the extra +1 to hit for 4 levels would have garnered you.

Also, you have Dual Implement, and only one implement. That's not cool.

In terms of Storm Powers, Thunder Leap is so amazingly good that I can't see why you'd not take it. Essense Mage is a fine schtick, I guess, but the amount of benefit you get from it is minor compared to a Storm Rider anyways, and it's costing you to Admixture Feats which are better off used for good stuff.

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Hell, it's Eberron. You're a Storm Sorcerer. Half Elven Lyrander Wind Rider practically writes itself.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

In retrospect tho, I shouldn't have pointed out the 13 strength as the problem. 17 charisma's what's really costing you the three points to put into constitution, which opens up a far better paragon path and feat choices than the extra +1 to hit for 4 levels would have garnered you.

Addressing in the last quote, below.

Also, you have Dual Implement, and only one implement. That's not cool.

Staves still count as two implements when wielded two-handed; at least, they haven't fixed it on the Character Builder, which leads me to believe it's OK. Which vaguely surprises me. Obviously, I'm not double-counting the item bonus from Staff of Ruin with DIS, that'd be silly.

I can always get a +4 or +5 dagger or something if need be.

In terms of Storm Powers, Thunder Leap is so amazingly good that I can't see why you'd not take it. Essense Mage is a fine schtick, I guess, but the amount of benefit you get from it is minor compared to a Storm Rider anyways, and it's costing you to Admixture Feats which are better off used for good stuff.

I honestly fail to see what's good about Thunder Leap, unless you mean that you ignore the secondary attack at the end and keep it as a good "Bang ha ha now you can't get me" power. As I don't see why you'd leap INTO melee with something.

I did commit a bit of a sin, though, by building the character at least partially around the Gifts for the Queen set. This would be a lot harder coming up from 1, obviously, but I have more than enough cash to buy most of the set at 21 (only missing the ring and staff, and of them, I'll get the ring), and making the at-wills all have lightning tags both adds flexibility and adds damage.

Hell, it's Eberron. You're a Storm Sorcerer. Half Elven Lyrander Wind Rider practically writes itself.

Here's the thing. I saw Bold or Stupid's note earlier about it, and didn't really think too much of it, as I didn't have much in the way of Con.

And then when I ran it, I noticed, hey, wait, this is rather disturbingly good. I'll miss the +4 attack bonus on APs and the +1d6 bonus from Essence Mage, but a +40 damage modifier with everything together is really nice. Also, I can slide almost anything I hit, which is nifty.

Would be nice if the PP powers were tagged as thunder or lightning, though.

Brad