piracy is a problem

[Toryx]

I think the one thing this thread proves is that WotC made a mistake by permanently linking chaos to evil in the 4e alignment system.

 

[Cam Banks]

Folks who illegally download PDFs of books from torrents and peer to peer networks aren't doing it to expand culture or express their indignation toward WotC or fight the power or any of that other smoke-blowing nonsense.

They want their hawt loot books ASAP.

It's all a short-sighted pursuit of immediacy. It's not expansion of culture, it's proliferation of impatience.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Korgoth]

Actually, whether piracy hurts sales, helps sales, expands culture or anything else is entirely irrelevant. Consider:

1. An unjust law is not a law... you cannot legitimately be compelled to do evil.

2. A law may be just but still stupid or inefficient.

3. Laws (insofar as they are just; see #1) are binding upon all members of the polity.

4. Piracy is illegal in the USA.

So, citizens of the USA, regardless of what they think of piracy (even if they think it is harmless or even beneficial) are bound not to commit piracy. This is because the law against piracy, whether it is a smart law or a stupid one, is not unjust... no moral evil is being deliberately inflicted by ordering someone not to pirate a book.

So the logic of the law is irrelevant. The law doesn't require you to kill a baby or rape someone, so the law is legitimate and must be followed even if you don't agree with it. Just like if you don't agree with the speed limit and decide to drive 150mph, even if your vehicle is under control the whole time, you're going down. What are you going to tell the cop? "I'm a liberto-hotrodian neosyndicalist and so I philosophically disagree with speed limits, weather reports and fresh produce." Too bad... that'll be 400 dollars.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

How is taking what other people produced without their permission "expanding culture"?

What are the pirates *producing*?

It is simply this. In the case of ideas, promoting your idea in more people is simply good for your idea. The more people who play your game or listen to your song or watch your show, see your movie, read your book=brand recognition.

Advertisers will tell you that brand recognition means something. The more people BELIEVE your product is popular the more popular it actually gets. If lots of people play D&D then more people will play D&D.

The pirates are likely producing more players to buy the books.

Hence, parasite. A lifeform which drains the resources of another and cannot exist without its host. (No one pays for books==nothing for the parasite to steal.)

This would be true if no one paid for books and WOTC had no other income. This isn't the case. People will always buy books. I wouldn't want just a digital copy. I want a physical one too. There is value inherent in the ability to read while away from a computer.

Many pirates will own a copy of the book in addition to their "free" copy. Many pirates will read through the book, tell their friends that they think this game is awesome and they should play a game. Those friends will likely proceed to go out and buy copies of the books.

As well, they will likely play in a public place at one time or another and people will see them playing D&D and think about buying it themselves. This may include gamesdays, conventions, and the like. The more people show up to gamesdays and conventions, especially to play things like Living Forgotten Realms the more involved in the lifestyle they become. If you play LFR every weekend at a local games day, then you are more likely to buy the next splat book as it is a better value for you. So, it encourages people who already play to buy more.

The pirates might enjoy the books enough that they'll want the next book the day it comes out and there won't be a copy scanned and on the internet for 2 weeks after the book is in stores and they'll break down and buy it.

 

[SteveC]

SteveC, may I be your minion?

Sure, but then that would make me a monster ... so where's my bag of treasure to give out to adventurers?

 

[Cirex]

Actually, whether piracy hurts sales, helps sales, expands culture or anything else is entirely irrelevant. Consider:

1. An unjust law is not a law... you cannot legitimately be compelled to do evil.

2. A law may be just but still stupid or inefficient.

3. Laws (insofar as they are just; see #1) are binding upon all members of the polity.

4. Piracy is illegal in the USA.

So, citizens of the USA, regardless of what they think of piracy (even if they think it is harmless or even beneficial) are bound not to commit piracy. This is because the law against piracy, whether it is a smart law or a stupid one, is not unjust... no moral evil is being deliberately inflicted by ordering someone not to pirate a book.

So the logic of the law is irrelevant. The law doesn't require you to kill a baby or rape someone, so the law is legitimate and must be followed even if you don't agree with it. Just like if you don't agree with the speed limit and decide to drive 150mph, even if your vehicle is under control the whole time, you're going down. What are you going to tell the cop? "I'm a liberto-hotrodian neosyndicalist and so I philosophically disagree with speed limits, weather reports and fresh produce." Too bad... that'll be 400 dollars.

I really need to study USA copyright laws. I really don't think they are so different to European ones.

Because, no offense, but your post seems to be about what you have "heard" by big companies or your own government.

Also, piracy is illegal at pretty much all developed countries. As a tip, don't go by ship around the coasts of Africa unless you know where you are exactly going. You may suddenly disappear to never come back.

 

[malraux]

Have you?

No, seriously. I've never heard of such a thing and wonder if it exists.

I've used the SRD as a DM aid, but that's about it.

-O

I've seen it. Only had one player go that route, and I'll rule against it in the future (or at least require that one player have a copy of the relevant rule book). I'm sure its common in at least some groups (college groups with lots of tech and bandwidth but not much cash).

 

[The Little Raven]

First thing : Entertainment is culture.

Giving away someone else's work while hiding behind the wall of internet anonymity is not expanding culture.

Second thing : Stealing implies the use of force against people or objects. In this case, there is none.

It implies use of force... in what definition?

transitive verb
1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice

2: to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly

3: to steal or attempt to steal a base

transitive verb
1 a: to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car>
b: to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty>
c: to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss>
d: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of <steal the show>

2 a: to move, convey, or introduce secretly : smuggle
b: to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner <steal a visit>

3 a: to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring <a basketball player adept at stealing the ball> <stole the election>
b of a base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and usually catching the opposing team off guard

There's only one definition that mentions force, and it's a qualifier that isn't necessary for that definition.

There are societies that got no access to culture in this world, they don't have Internet, they can't buy books, they don't listen to music often or maybe they won't watch a single movie in their entire life. However, if you could give them a piece of culture, wouldn't you like it to be spread among all of them?

"Poor societies don't have access to things like this, so that justifies a bunch of Americans illegally distributing someone else's work before its release date."

People who download things are nor pirates, nor thieves.

The people who put them up are thieves, especially the individual that stole proprietary documents from his own company in order to post these. I'd call the person swine, but pigs are actually higher on the ethical totem pole.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

In a rare display, I agree 150% with Lizard.

Indeed.

I'm all for the distribution of stuff via internet, and I know you can't stuff a technological genie back into the bottle... but piracy is not a good thing, not by a long shot. "Parasitism" is a perfectly good and accurate description of it, and I'm worried about the long-term viability of any professionally produced stuff, be it books, games, movies etc.

 

[malraux]

Folks who illegally download PDFs of books from torrents and peer to peer networks aren't doing it to expand culture or express their indignation toward WotC or fight the power or any of that other smoke-blowing nonsense.

They want their hawt loot books ASAP.

It's all a short-sighted pursuit of immediacy. It's not expansion of culture, it's proliferation of impatience.

Cheers,
Cam

Alternate value: electronic searching. For some things I'd rather have the pdf than print. Say I want to create an encounter with a werewolf, I can hit apple-space, type werewolf, and see all the modules I have that have a werewolf in them (apparently I-6 Ravenloft and the Banewarrens). And yes, I did buy those.

edit: That said, yes I'd assume that the major motivation for downloading the 4e pdfs is immediate gratification.