piracy is a problem

[Korgoth]

Because, no offense, but your post seems to be about what you have "heard" by big companies or your own government.

I was just spinning out some Aquinas for you, actually. Who is not exactly a capitalist (since he thinks that hoarded wealth constitutes theft).

You really don't think that the laws of your country are binding upon you as a citizen, even if you think some of the laws are dumb? How can you then in good conscience reap the benefits of membership in your society?

Incidentally... I see that you're from Spain? What part? I'd like to visit Navarre someday.

 

[The_Warlock]

...but it isn't usually just 'information', of course. It's a product. ...

And I agree with you more or less, the points I was trying to make, however, is that while it may often be "product":

1) The sharing of other's ideas and non-physical concepts which are a product (story, song, design, etc) regardless of origin or claims of ownership is not new to humanity.

2) Sharing of some of these intellectual products, despite strong similarities in action to modern filesharing, though rarely in breadth of distribution, have not, and in some cases still aren't, viewed as theft.

3) The various ideologies, cultures, and political entities around the world have yet to agree on system which protects the rights of a creator, without villifying someone on some level and their ability to use information fairly, or puts the ability to defend the origin in the corner of the person who can afford the most expensive lawyers.

In the end I'm not trying to identify what is right and wrong. Merely pointing out that there is no absolute right/wrong on an issue of this nature, and claiming that there is one without considering other perspectives does a disservice to creators, users, and the information in question.

And doing so in a vitriolic method which claims that people with another perspective on what constitutes fair use of intellectual property are in fact personally robbing another user of said intellectual product seems at the very least rude, especially if you consider the variants of the system made before the internet which are considered a public service and method of free advertising.

That's really all I wanted to point out.

 

[Cirex]

Giving away someone else's work while hiding behind the wall of internet anonymity is not expanding culture.

How is not? If I share with my friends that X was awesome and I even show them a piece of it, isn't that expanding culture? If I talk to my classmates about the awesomeness of certain thing I read in a book, isn't that expanding culture?

It implies use of force... in what definition?

There's only one definition that mentions force, and it's a qualifier that isn't necessary for that definition.

Posting definitions of "stealing a kiss" or similar doesn't help. Stealing the money with a found credit card is not using the force physically, that's true, but the original definition of steal was quite clear.
If I steal a watch, the owner doesn't have it anymore. If I download a song, the original owner still has it. Right? There goes the steal comparition.

"Poor societies don't have access to things like this, so that justifies a bunch of Americans illegally distributing someone else's work before its release date."

Release dates are a guide, aren't they? Buy.com shipped books.

The people who put them up are thieves, especially the individual that stole proprietary documents from his own company in order to post these. I'd call the person swine, but pigs are actually higher on the ethical totem pole.

Yes, thanks for putting in the same bag someone who took the documents from the same company and those who downloaded them.
I already talked about propaganda and the misuse of steal and piracy words.

 

[DarkAngel1979]

Folks who illegally download PDFs of books from torrents and peer to peer networks aren't doing it to expand culture or express their indignation toward WotC or fight the power or any of that other smoke-blowing nonsense.

They want their hawt loot books ASAP.

The one does not preclude the other. The expansion of culture that comes from peer to peer comes from the sheer amoral force of unstoppable technological progress. The motivations of the individual actors are irrelevant.

The common good is just the amalgam of a million selfish interests.

 

[pogminky]

Just another random thought on this subject (as I said before I'm no expert, nor am I a good guy):

If having a pdf means you delay in purchasing a copy, even if you do eventually buy it, then you still cost the producer money in lost interest. Doesn't this mean that the production company is less profitable and in turn this means they can't give their employees/shareholders/customers as good a deal as they could've otherwise?

 

[rethgryn]

I've already pre-ordered it and I'm going to buy it on the street date. Whats the big deal?

 

[N0Man]

At the risk of repeating myself from another thread: do you think the act of downloading illegally copied PDF's of 4ed encourages, or discourages future piracy?

I will not be downloading the PDF's, partly because I believe it encourages the act and don't want to do that, and partly because I want to enjoy the books as they were meant to be seen, at the time the creators intended me to see it. Just a week or so to go. No problem.

How does it encourage piracy? If someone downloaded the PDFs off a newsgroup, it has absolutely zero effect on the person who posted them in the first place. They don't gain anything from it. No money exchanges hands, and they don't even get the gratification of knowing someone downloaded it.

I'm not trying to condone piracy at all, but I just think that the argument is weak.

Honestly, I think vast majority of people who pirate it and don't buy are people who very likely wouldn't have bought anyway.

I imagine a lot of people pirating it currently are people who want to see a preview of it, and still plan to buy.

 

[Cirex]

I was just spinning out some Aquinas for you, actually. Who is not exactly a capitalist (since he thinks that hoarded wealth constitutes theft).

You really don't think that the laws of your country are binding upon you as a citizen, even if you think some of the laws are dumb? How can you then in good conscience reap the benefits of membership in your society?

Incidentally... I see that you're from Spain? What part? I'd like to visit Navarre someday.

I follow laws, since it's one of my duties as Spanish citizen. However, Spanish copyright rules allow me to download anything I want if I follow four conditions, being the main one the lack of profit one.

The law is very clear, however, the Spanish government, manipulated by the big companies, has started an "anti-piracy plan", which includes some commercials that spread lies and it costed ME and the other citizens, 300 millions of euros.

It's very silly that the Spanish version of the MPAA or the RIAA, a company created to make sure the copyright is followed and all that, a non-profit organization in short, managed to have a NET benefit of 320 millions of euros in 2004.

After studying things like this, one comes to realize how misinformed people are, from the average student to the high executive. That's why I said it seems you are a bit misinformed, however, I need to study the USA copyright law.

Now, it's your decision to agree with the government using public money to hunt people who download stuff while many people are starving at the streets.

 

[Cam Banks]

The one does not preclude the other. The expansion of culture that comes from peer to peer comes from the sheer amoral force of unstoppable technological progress. The motivations of the individual actors are irrelevant.

The common good is just the amalgam of a million selfish interests.

I think about .01% of people who engage in this activity spend even the tiniest bit of time thinking about that stuff. The rest just want the free PDFs now. You are overintellectualizing laziness and impatience.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[pogminky]

How does it encourage piracy?

By creating demand. If there was no demand there'd be no product - or at least less.
Also, don't the host sites recieve some sort of benefit for doing so?