Planar binding = unlimited wishes?

[Sejs]

Here's a question: what does casting Wish three times do to inconvenience an efreeti other than take up 18 seconds of his time? In other words, if I were to summon an efreeti and make him cast wish for me, why would that make him more angry than if I were to summon him for any other reason? And along that line of argumentation, doesn't that mean that any use of Planar Binding will precipitate the invasion of a planar hit squad bent on revenge?

It's not so much the reason why its summoned that'd irk the genie - it's the fact that normally when you bind a creature you negotiate with it, paying it something that it wants in exchange for the value of its service. In this case, the party's just talking about binding the efreet and telling it to make with the wishes or we'll @#$%ing kill you.

That's what would warrant the hit squad. The extortion and the hubris.

 

[Felix]

it's the fact that normally when you bind a creature you negotiate with it, paying it something that it wants in exchange for the value of its service.

Which is something that HeapThaumaturgist is largely ignoring in post #49.

IF you Wish for a manual +5, and IF it is strictly permissable by the rules, THEN the genie is going to want an equivalent amount of compensation. This will reduce the PC's resources by as much as he is increasing it with the Manual.

So why, why would you search for reasons to send extraplanar hit-squads after PCs that legitimately use the spells at their disposal?

 

[Quartz]

Can I suggest a simpler solution? Simply dock the player 5000 XP per Wish; the Effreet is using the character's sould to power the Wish.

 

[Old Drew Id]

As long as the PC's pay fair prices for the wishes, this would work and would not be a problem.

As soon as they tried the "do it or we kill you" tactic, I'd allow it to work the first time they tried it. But...

The next morning, when they go to prepare the spell again, they find that the spell is no longer on their known spells list. During the night, an efreet wished for them to be forever unable to cast that spell.

The PC's were clever, and they got three wishes out of the deal. My campaign ought to be able to handle that without crashing. Let the game world responded accordingly. No need for drawn-out interplanar revenge plots, etc. The efreet just makes sure they don't do it again, and moves on. Probably happens to him every couple of years anyway, and this is his standard response.

If they try to overcome the limitation and go after it again, then the efreet will actually get upset and take further steps. Again, he would do as they wish the first day, but then the next morning they would all wake up cursed, polymorphed, in the Abyss, all of the above, etc. At that point it's not the PC's being clever, it's the players trying to abuse the system.

 

[Artoomis]

As long as the PC's pay fair prices for the wishes, this would work and would not be a problem.

As soon as they tried the "do it or we kill you" tactic, I'd allow it to work the first time they tried it. But...

The next morning, when they go to prepare the spell again, they find that the spell is no longer on their known spells list. During the night, an efreet wished for them to be forever unable to cast that spell.

The PC's were clever, and they got three wishes out of the deal. My campaign ought to be able to handle that without crashing. Let the game world responded accordingly. No need for drawn-out interplanar revenge plots, etc. The efreet just makes sure they don't do it again, and moves on. Probably happens to him every couple of years anyway, and this is his standard response.

If they try to overcome the limitation and go after it again, then the efreet will actually get upset and take further steps. Again, he would do as they wish the first day, but then the next morning they would all wake up cursed, polymorphed, in the Abyss, all of the above, etc. At that point it's not the PC's being clever, it's the players trying to abuse the system.

Cool

Do they have a Bard in the party? Perhaps he's heard of a story like this?

 

[thorian]

Infinite wishes are easily obtainable without resorting to worrying about the semantics of planar binding. As soon as a character has 8400gp, he has essentially unlimited, free wishes at his disposal. Here is how it goes:

1) Purchase a candle of invocation.
2) Use the ability of the candle of invocation to cast a gate spell, and call an efreeti.
3) As part of the gate spell, command the efreeti to use his three wishes to wish for the following: 1 – a candle of invocation, 2 – whatever you want, 3 – whatever you want.

If you want multiple wishes all at once, just make wishes 2 and 3 for a candle of invocation, and gate in two efreeti for six wishes. You can repeat this ad infinitum.

 

[Nail]

The next morning, when they go to prepare the spell again, they find that the spell is no longer on their known spells list. During the night, an efreet wished for them to be forever unable to cast that spell.

The affected PC should get a saving throw to avoid the effect of the effreet's wish. If not, then be prepared to have the PC's wish the BBEG dead...no save.

 

[Nail]

...and: Why does the efreet get to wish for a greater effect than what's written in the spell description, but doesn't have to deal with:

You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)

 

[SteveC]

Here's how I would handle this. When the character summons the efreet, I'd have it appear with great reverance. When asked to provide three wishes "or else!" Here's what I'd have it say:

"Nope, sorry, doesn't work that way. Here's the deal, and by giving you a rundown on how this works, I'm giving you something for free. This is the last time that will happen: everything else you ask of me comes with a price.

So you're right, you have the power to kill me here and now. By being able to summon and bind me this effectively, that's self-evidently true.

However, if you do that, many people you're close to and hold dear will die. My fellow efreeti will retaliate against those who are closest to you, and, quite obviously, least able to protect themselves. If you try this again, they'll come after you. Not directly, mind you, but sideways. By that I mean, from the looks of you, all of you need to sleep and take care of other...mortal functions, shall we say. You'll die in a very embaressing and painful way.

But I see you're starting to get upset, so allow me to explain the why of all of this. You see, you're not the first person to think of this. In fact, just about everyone knows the legends of our kind and how we grant wishes to mortals. When that kind of information gets out, everyone wants to get in on the act. Wealth? Powerful magic? Just for the asking? Everybody wants to sign up for that deal. Everybody that includes people who are your enemies at the moment I might point out. You think that "evil overlord" you're looking for didn't think of summoning me to give him just the same sort of help? Well he did--they all do.

So the thing is, if we didn't get together and protect ourselves as a group, we'd just be answering summons for wishes all day long. More than that, some people who are able to summon us aren't as nice as you are. I mean you actually gave me the choice of helping you out without actually trying to kill me first! Many people we deal with, both on your plane and on others, aren't so nice. So that's why we act this way: out of self preservation and protection.

So here's the deal: I can offer you wishes, advice, guidance...you name it. The thing is, it comes with a price. If I don't charge you that price, even if I happen to like you, I get into very serious trouble with the powers that be. How do you think that some of us happen to end up in lamps for hundreds of years?

So if you're interested in my help, tell me what you want and I'll give you the price list. If you can meet the price, well, we can do business. Heck, I can even throw in a way for you to get in touch with me for free if you become a good enough customer. What's it going to be?"

The ball's in their court at that point. If you think about it, this is the only real reason why creatures who can grant wishes aren't all locked up in the BBEG's tower making him impossible to kill...

--Steve

 

[pawsplay]

The solution I favor is taking away that "to non-genies only" crap and simply giving them wish 3/day. Is there some reason a genie needs a human, a quasit, or a halfling to wish for something before it can snap its fingers and wield its mighty magic? That would probably warrant a change in CR, of course.

It's interesting... efreet don't get to grant wishes to others, 3/day. They actually, 1/day, can grant three wishes (to non-genies). So it is correct that you could get a +3 inherent bonus, and incorrect you are limited to +1.

What you actually want to do is to get granted three wishes, then granted three wishes by another efreet. Then you use them one after another, granting you a +5 inherent bonus and a fancy, expensive item of your choice.