"Planar Handbook" - completlely useless?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

You have the same statistics that he does. Namely, none. Thus, common sense prevails.

The proof is in the pudding. How much Planescape material has come out in the past 5 years? If it was profitable, they would put more out. But it isn't, so they don't. I think it's even more telling that genres like Ravenloft and Dragonlance have been parcelled out but not Planescape.

Personally, I'm glad it's gone. Out with the old, in with the new.

 

[Incenjucar]

As I recall, it wasn't that PS wasn't making profit, it just wasn't making FR-scale profit. But it was clearly profitable enough that, rather than actually go back to the original non-Sigilian Great Wheel, they kept on using the PS material. They did it wrong, but the Lady of Pain is still being printed about. There's enough of us that they -want- our money.

Indeed, unless I'm mistaken, Planescape's material is beating out Mystara's, Birthright's, and even Dark Sun's. And Ravenloft and Dragonlance were deemed something that WotC can shrug off and give away -- the price tag on PS is supposedly so huge that nobody can afford it. Common sense my arse.

 

[Psion]

The proof is in the pudding. How much Planescape material has come out in the past 5 years? If it was profitable, they would put more out.

Not so. It just wasn't worth the opportunity cost. That doesn't mean it wasn't profitable. Just less profitable that FR. It was probably right there with Dark Sun.

As for how profitable it is, we shall see when BCD hits print. The PDF is already the hottest seller on DriveThru RPG, and I can't help but think the sales there are but a fraction of those that get sold over on the White Wolf catalog page.

Further, you are rather oversimplifying. Even if it was not profitable enough, it could be more profitable. One hurdle that PS had was it was an expensive campaign to get into. In theory you only needed one box. In practice, you needed four. Starting fresh for a new edition, I don't see why you couldn't do a reasonable job in an FRCS style book.

Finally, you pretend economics is the only factor. The accountants are there to say "no", not to say "print this." The design team conceives what they will print. And unfortunately, much like a few posters in this thread, many pivotal members of the design team seem activel hostile to planescape.

 

[Pants]

the price tag on PS is supposedly so huge that nobody can afford it. Common sense my arse.

That's because they learned their lesson after the price they sold Ravenloft for. notice how the Ravenloft CS book was printed by S&SS instead of WotC. Notice how the Dragonlance CS was printed by WotC and not Sovereign. WotC realized their mistake and while I'm not sure what the price of DL was compared to PS, I'm positive it wasn't 'cheap.'

 

[Krypter]

The Planar Handbook is far from useless. It's mostly crunch with some setting flavour thrown in with the touchstone entries and the descriptions of the planar metropolises.

I'm a big Planescape fan, but I liked this book. It had a lot of new ideas, especially as regards to statting out things that had often been simply flavour in PS (I don't mean the Lady, that was a trivial mistake ). The equipment section was very good, and the planar touchstones definitely have potential to entice Prime-based players to new dimensions.

Remember, this is not a setting book, nor is it an attempt to update Planescape to 3.5. It's a newer version of the old 1E MotP and the Planewalker's Handbook. It gives resources for players to use in a planar campaign and shows enough goodies to get people excited about planar adventuring. It's not a great book, but it's good at its intended goal.

The person who said that this book allows both PS-lovers and PS-haters to play in the Planes is right. If you really want to play Planescape, get the books on eBay or at SVGames and use the new PlHB to cover the rules, and you're ready to go.

I suspect that if this book sells well, we will soon have a 3.5E Planar Campaign Sourcebook that combines some elements of Planescape with a new cosmology and playground for planar adventures. That's what I'm hoping for, anyways.

Planescape is great, but everything that could be written about it has already been published. TSR had a whole book just for the Ethereal plane, for Pete's sake! WotC is not in the business of reprinting old books and ideas. They, and their writers, want to go in new directions. Good for them. I would be unhappy if all new planar sourcebooks were like the PlHB, but this once doesn't hurt.

 

[Psion]

WotC is not in the business of reprinting old books and ideas. They, and their writers, want to go in new directions.

I take it you haven't been following the Complete series?

 

[diaglo]

WotC is not in the business of reprinting old books and ideas. They, and their writers, want to go in new directions.

mang, i haven't spit that much coffee out on my keyboard in a really, really long time.


read what Psion said.


history repeats itself whether they are TSR or WotC or Hasbeen. they haven't had an original idea...EVAR.

 

[Incenjucar]

What they said.

Heck, even the feat system is just an extrapolation of various NWPs from across the editions. Ninja's Handbook and Planescape both used the heck out of very feat-like NWPs and WPs, and many of them made a nigh-direct translation to 3e.

There's no such thing as an original idea; heck, most monsters are just based off of dinosaur fossil finds initially (they even had a special about it on the History Channel a day or two ago -- seems Greece is -loaded- with fossils that are just popping out of the ground, especially in the bloody-hued clay area, and they brought them to temples in olden days.)

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

The average gamer post TSR (that is, who only started gaming in the last 5 years) would definitely give a big "huh?" to Planescape

That's like saying that most people who were born yesterday can't do long division. If you started playing D&D after 3E came out you might have the same reaction to mentions of: Al Qadim, Hollow World, Mystara, Time of Troubles, Dark Sun, Council of Wyrms, Maztica, Red Steel, THAC0 and possibly Dragonlance, Ravenloft or even Greyhawk. Next you'll hit us with the revelation that people who started video-gaming with the X-Box aren't familiar with Adventure, DigDug and Sinistar.

forced to adopt a decade-old dead setting where the planes are all full of punks and grunge slackers wearing spiky clothing, clockwork devices and talking funny?" they would probably respond by bashing your head in with a copy of "Portals & Planes".

And then they'd get curb stomped; but that's beside the point. Ever notice that when someone has nothing better to say, they mention spikes. I saw the same thing from people who didn't want 3E to happen. The cant... That's the easiest thing to mentally shut out from the setting. I do it without even thinking and barely notice the cant.

Especially since there is nothing in the current materials that makes it impossible for said fanboy to run a "3.x Planescape" campaign. The demand on the part of said fanboys that the new planar material be EXCLUSIVELY Planescape is nothing more than a mean spirited desire to force their particular vision of the planes on all the rest of us.

You like the word fanboy so much, I have another word for you; strawman.
Nothing says that you can't run a Tron campaign using D&D rules; that doesn't mean it wouldn't be easier with a set of wotc-made rules and nice inspirational art.
Where did you see anyone demanding, or even suggesting that the new planar material be exclusively Planescape? I don't see that. What I do see is people taking issue with the wotc saying that a new PS book wouldn't sell one minute, and then using snippets of PS material here and there to sell their new products the next minute. They're contradicting themselves and thinking we don't notice.
I'm not even saying that they are purposely lacing new material with Planescape stuff in order to get PS fans to buy it. I'm just saying that if it won't sell as a PS product, why include it in something new at all? Something doesn't compute...

Suggesting that products shouldn't get made just because you don't want them made; that's mean-spirited. That happened when Deities & Demigods was announced. You know the people, the ones who think that if they don't have a use for a product, no one else should either. I'd guess that most Planescape fans simply don't want planescape material slowly dribbled out book after shoddy, lackluster book when we could at least have a one-shot PS core book. Publish as much new planar material as you want, just don't scatter dribs and drabs of PS material in it after you told us PS won't sell. At worst you can call us a tad selfish. Mean-spirited? Nope.
Your post is full of assumptions, suppositions and made-up statistics and I wouldn't even call it mean-spirited.
Wrong-headed and pointless, maybe.

 

[Arnwyn]

WotC is not in the business of reprinting old books and ideas. They, and their writers, want to go in new directions.

Good heavens. I was with you until you spouted this.