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Planejammer / Spellscape

Let's say at some point over the next few months WotC announces some update to Planescape and/or Spelljammer. This may include cherry picking the best bits of each and combining them.

What would you want out of such a setting, or supplement?
 

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Dungeonosophy

Adventurer
1. An actually detailed cosmological/galactic/phlogistonic map of the D&D Multiverse, showing the location of each and every previously mentioned planet, moon, plane, demiplane, dimension, alternate timeline, and reality, from all editions of D&D, and all TSR/WotC rpg lines (Alternity, d20 Modern, etc). Something like the most detailed Star Wars Galaxy map.

2. Include a full-page planetary map of each of the major worlds (Abeir-Toril, Ravenloft, Oerth, Athas, Krynn, Eberron, Mystara, Aebrynis, Nerath, "D&D Earth" (Urban Arcana/Historical Reference), Sigil, and Rock of Bral), with an icon showing where every published adventure is officially placed or suggested. (Several sites exist in more than one world - e.g. Keep on the Borderland.)

3. Include Chronomancy so that, not only all the worlds can be visited, but also, all the times (e.g. Arcane Age of FR, Age of Blackmoor of Mystara, Age of Istar in Dragonlance). Include a timeline of the D&D Multiverse, lining up all the chronologies of the various worlds (and taking into account the mathematics of how some worlds have shorter years!). Also make space for sidestream timelines for continuity snags and alternate/parallel storylines, such as the various d20 Modern Campaign Models set on Earth.

4. Make reference to Bruce Heard's "reality" concept, so as to make clear the distinction between the Original Reality, Classic Reality, Advanced Reality, Second Reality, Saga Reality, Third Reality, Fourth Reality, and Fifth Reality. There are eight main Realities of the D&D Multiverse.

5. Introduce a slight connection with the rest of the Hasbro Universe via a wider "Megaverse" beyond the D&D Multiverse proper: Dominaria (M:tG), Transformers, Go-Bots, GI Joe, Action Man, Equestria, Micronauts, M.A.S.K., Jem and the Holograms, Clue, Visionaries, and ROM: Space Knight. So that these can become D&D settings in the future, and leverage the upcoming Hasbro Cinematic Universe films.
 
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Coroc

Hero
[MENTION=6688049]Polyhedral Columbia[/MENTION]

Ahm Ravenloft is not a planet as such it is a demiplane to my best knowledge, I doubt there is Ravenspace and Portals to Ravenloft are usually 1 way only and that is in.

Eight main realities? Did not know about that one, what is that about?
 

Coroc

Hero
[MENTION=6688049]Polyhedral Columbia[/MENTION]

I want to Play Gi Joe in FR :p (NOT of course) but imagine the outcry of hardcore FR fans who are totally happy with 5e FR drawing in all Kind of stuff from other setttings.

Action Man? Was that that 70s bearded Guy in an orange Overall? The competor for Big Jim who could not do a Karate strike but was much more expensive ?
 

gyor

Legend
[MENTION=6688049]Polyhedral Columbia[/MENTION]

I want to Play Gi Joe in FR :p (NOT of course) but imagine the outcry of hardcore FR fans who are totally happy with 5e FR drawing in all Kind of stuff from other setttings.

Action Man? Was that that 70s bearded Guy in an orange Overall? The competor for Big Jim who could not do a Karate strike but was much more expensive ?

If I was going to do a D&D crossover I'd go with Star Trek, it'd be cool to see races like Cardassians, Risians, Trill, Klingons, Vulcans (what do you mean your not an Elf ;p), Betaziods, Deltans, Orions, Gorn, Surians, Jem'hadar, Vorta, Klingons, Nausicaans, Pakleds, Lethans, Remans, Romulans, Halafians, Bolians, Andorians, with spells, as well as seeing how the Federation deals with FR Gods.
 

gyor

Legend
Being more realistic I'd want a Chapter on Sigil, a Chapter on the Outer Planes and Energy Planes, a Chapter on the Inner and Transitive Planes, a Chapter on the Material Plane, Echo Planes, and the Phlogiston (including blurb on all major settings, like Toril, Kyrnn, Oerth, Nerath, Eberron, Athas, Cellia, Mystara).

And some player material like Sigil Faction backgrounds, some Spelljammers.
 


SkidAce

Hero
1. An actually detailed cosmological/galactic/phlogistonic map of the D&D Multiverse, showing the location of each and every previously mentioned planet, moon, plane, demiplane, dimension, alternate timeline, and reality, from all editions of D&D, and all TSR/WotC rpg lines (Alternity, d20 Modern, etc). Something like the most detailed Star Wars Galaxy map.

2. Include a full-page planetary map of each of the major worlds (Abeir-Toril, Ravenloft, Oerth, Athas, Krynn, Eberron, Mystara, Aebrynis, "D&D Earth" (Urban Arcana/Historical Reference), Sigil, and Rock of Bral), with an icon showing where every published adventure is officially placed or suggested. (Several sites exist in more than one world - e.g. Keep on the Borderland.)

3. Include Chronomancy so that, not only all the worlds can be visited, but also, all the times (e.g. Arcane Age of FR, Age of Blackmoor of Mystara, Age of Istar in Dragonlance). Include a timeline of the D&D Multiverse, lining up all the chronologies of the various worlds (and taking into account the mathematics of how some worlds have shorter years!). Also make space for sidestream timelines for continuity snags and alternate/parallel storylines, such as the various d20 Modern Campaign Models set on Earth.

4. Make reference to Bruce Heard's "reality" concept, so as to make clear the distinction between the Original Reality, Classic Reality, Advanced Reality, Second Reality, Saga Reality, Third Reality, Fourth Reality, and Fifth Reality. There are eight main Realities of the D&D Multiverse.

5. Introduce a slight connection with the rest of the Hasbro Universe via a wider "Megaverse" beyond the D&D Multiverse proper: Dominaria (M:tG), Transformers, Go-Bots, GI Joe, Action Man, Equestria, Micronauts, M.A.S.K., Jem and the Holograms, Clue, Visionaries, and ROM: Space Knight. So that these can become D&D settings in the future, and leverage the upcoming Hasbro Cinematic Universe films.

1. Don't need this, wouldn't work with my cosmos, nor likely work with many homebrews, and take to much effort on WotC part to be worth it.

2. See #1

3. Interesting idea, could include rules but as for the rest see #1.

4. See #1.

5. See #1, besides, I prefer to decide whats connecting or not.


Overall your ideas are interesting, but I dont think they are feasible.
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
Mostly an AP or a TotYP-type AP so the murderhoboes can get chased out of Mt. Celestia, break into a fortress in the 9 Hells, scavenger hunt in Sigil, and have a pirate adventure in the Astral Sea.....

A few more monsters (more celestials please).
 

jgsugden

Legend
Give us Sigil, the City of Brass and detail a major city in the Abyss.

Drop phlogiston and replace it with sailing the Astral Sea.

Give us reasons to Spelljam. Trading routes, products that are traded across the planes, etc....

Spelljamming subclasses.
 

Staffan

Adventurer
[MENTION=6670153]gyor[/MENTION] roflmao " Cardassians" .. i first read "Kardashians" and was going to myself wtf ? haha :)

qjwv9ct.gif
 

Dungeonosophy

Adventurer
@Polyhedral Columbia

Ahm Ravenloft is not a planet as such it is a demiplane to my best knowledge, I doubt there is Ravenspace and Portals to Ravenloft are usually 1 way only and that is in.

True. Looking back at my post, I see that the wording was off...the Demiplane of Dread (or at least the geographically connected "Core") could be described as a "world", but not a "planet". I was just being lazy by not saying "compete planetary, demiplanar, toroidal, or asteroidal map" of the D&D worlds, the Domains of Ravenloft, Sigil, and the Rock of Bral.

Since I like maps, though you guys probably already know, I'll post a couple good Ravenloft world maps:

http://fraternityofshadows.com/PortraitHall/JesterMaps/New-Core---Jester-revised---red-borders.png
http://wiki.nodnod.net/images/a/a9/Ravenloft-core.png

A complete map would also have inset maps along the margin showing all the (published) disconnected domains which float in the Mists alone.

Eight main realities? Did not know about that one, what is that about?

Hardly anyone knows about this, but D&D Brand Manager Bruce Heard wrote an article explaining how each of the game editions (OD&D, AD&D2e, etc) is a distinct Reality. And that PCs can actually travel from one Reality to another via a "reality shift", which is a spell which only Greater Deities (or the greater Immortals of the Mystara cosmology) can cast.

When shifting to a different Reality, the character is morphed in various subtle (or major) ways which (from an out-of-game perspective) reflect the conversion to a different rules system. Only deity-level beings can remain fully conscious of their conversion via "reality shift".

Nearly everyone who hears this jeers and says: "That's silly - I don't want "game editions" to actually exist in the D&D Multiverse! It should just be handwaved."

But there's a big in-world difference, for example, between Classic D&D Mystara and AD&D 2E Mystara. Several of the NPCs who are Fighters in the Classic Reality are Barbarians, Rangers, and Paladins in the Second Reality (since those classes don't exist in Classic D&D). Similarly, if Mystara had be released for 4E, some of the CD&D Fighters would have been discovered to be Warlords. And also big cosmological differences.

There are eight main Realities:
  • Original D&D
  • Classic (BECMI) D&D
  • AD&D 1E
  • AD&D 2E
  • Saga System (used for Krynn for a time; but also there was a DRAGON magazine article which converted other settings to Saga)
  • D&D 3E/d20 Modern
  • D&D 4E
  • D&D 5E
There are other, minor realities too (e.g. Alternity).

The Reality concept is an important tool for untangling the various depictions of the D&D Multiverse in various rules editions: because if the TSR/WotC designers (besides Bruce Heard) had really grasped the concept, then the Time of Troubles (which coincided with the Fate of Istus in Oerth and the Chaos War in Krynn), Die Vecna Die!, the Spellplague, the Second Sundering, and similar catastrophic edition-shifts would not have been necessary, as the story would've just been explained by a harmless Reality Shift. One moment, we're seeing the Fourth Reality of Forgotten Realms, and in the next book, we're seeing in the Fifth Reality, which has always existed in parallel to the other Realities. Which is how the shift from CD&D to AD&D2E happened for Mystara.

(Of course, there could be catastrophic stories told for their own sake, but not to justify rules changes.)

Now some would say: "Yeah, but the catastrophic edition shifts did happen, so that's canon too." But the Reality concept (which is also "canonical") doesn't contradict that fact: the Reality concept is still valid and useful, since there are many subtle shifts in detail (such as how fast a character advances on the XP chart) which aren't explained by the in-story events. And also, clearly the "old" Realities still continue to exist, and the "new" Realities have *always* existed off screen. All eight Realities extend forever into the past and future. It's just that TSR/WotC shifts its publishing lens from one Reality to another. (Presumably the 6th Edition D&D Multiverse and 7th Edition D&D Multiverse already exist backstage as well, and have always existed.)

That older Realities continue to exist, is proved by how WotC has continued to republished classic D&D material, such as the Keep on the Borderlands special edition, or the reprints of the AD&D 1E rulebooks, or the hundreds of D&D Classics PDFs. And also by the fact that the already-purchased stack of books from older editions doesn't just disintegrate when a new edition is released.

That newer Realties have actually always existed is proved by how the Arcane Age books which were produced for Torils ancient past: they used Second Edition rules! Not First Edition rules as would be expected for pre-Time of Troubles. Which proves that the Second Edition Reality always existed "off-screen", and extends forever into the past (and future). However, to their credit, designers actually took note of this, and included a little section about how to either use First Edition to play in the Arcane Age, or to model First Edition rules (spells and "lost" classes, such as the Assassin) using Second Edition!

Here's the reprint of the DRAGON magazine article about Reality Shifts: http://pandius.com/upaway.html

And here are my articles:

https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-realities
https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/realities-and-worlds-chart
https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/continuities
 
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Dungeonosophy

Adventurer
[MENTION=6688049]Polyhedral Columbia[/MENTION]

I want to Play Gi Joe in FR :p (NOT of course) but imagine the outcry of hardcore FR fans who are totally happy with 5e FR drawing in all Kind of stuff from other setttings.

Action Man? Was that that 70s bearded Guy in an orange Overall? The competor for Big Jim who could not do a Karate strike but was much more expensive ?

Yep, that's the Man.

Well, the connection with the Hasbro Universe would just be a short paragraph...though the Dominaria Multiverse and Equestria Universe are already nearing the D&D Multiverse via their depiction in TRPG form. I would keep the IPs in separate Multiverses, but mention they're connected via a "Megaverse". Which is how Transformers explains the occasional cross-over connection between the Transformers Multiverse and other IPs.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megaverse
 

Irda Ranger

First Post
Give us Sigil, the City of Brass and detail a major city in the Abyss.

Drop phlogiston and replace it with sailing the Astral Sea.

Give us reasons to Spelljam. Trading routes, products that are traded across the planes, etc....

Spelljamming subclasses.
This is a very good list. You'd need to add one or two Space-cities, like the Rock of Bral, as well. Maybe an Astral Sea piratical port-o-call run by less-murderous-than-average Githyanki.

You'd also need rules for allowing low-level characters (who don't have access to Plane Shift) to travel the planes and go spelljamming. You want to support play starting at 1st level, so you start by asking yourself how 1st level PCs can really participate in a spelljammer or planescape setting without having access to all the powers that normally you associate with such settings. And also without being beholden to some NPC that owns a ship or teleports you around for some reason.

For instance, a Spelljammer campaign should have a small, cheap, slow boat as starting equipment. "Here's your boat. It has a third-hand, barely works, scrapyard spelljamming helm and just enough hull for 8 people plus supplies. Roll on this table to explain how you got it." And the table would have things like "Won it in a high stakes game of sabacc" or "inherited from pirate uncle". The point is, it's just good enough to fly around nearby Wildspace and start your adventures.

"Reasons to Spelljam" don't have to be different from any other D&D reason. Adventure! An abandoned space hulk needs salvage. Asteroid farmers are being harassed by rock-hopping space orcs. Etc.

Lastly there should be good ship-to-ship combat rules where everyone plans a ship-board role. The navigator makes contests with the enemy navigator to get into a superior firing position. The gunners have to aim the guns and roll damage. The helmsman should do something too besides just burn slots for speed.
 

grimslade

Adventurer
I wonder if the helm should default power the ship without input from a spellcaster/lifeforce/psionic input, but when powered by a helmsman using resources, it can do wondrous things. Tactical maneuvers, replenish fresh air, create a shield, fire a spell to disable another ships helm. This lets low level start with a ship able to go from A to B, but the ship powers up as the characters level. The helm itself could have a levelled progression almost enabling all the characters to utilize its helm features. Ship to ship combat would be additional abiltities so no one would be left out of the fight, sort of a Voltron of the party working the ship.
 

E

Elderbrain

Guest
@Polyhedral Columbia

I want to Play Gi Joe in FR :p (NOT of course) but imagine the outcry of hardcore FR fans who are totally happy with 5e FR drawing in all Kind of stuff from other setttings.

LOL, I was thinking about that the other day while reading about the Yuan-Ti... Cobra Commander could be a Yuan-Ti Pureblood, or maybe a Malison with a snake head and a mask... and of course the organization would be called COBRA! Depending on your preferences, the Joes might have the firearms from the DMG at their disposal...
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I want a full chapter on the different varieties of giant space hamster. Doesn't have to be long. I've seen them fill upwards of 17 pages with even less useful stuff, so I know it's doable.
 

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