Player Complaints About Pre-Gens

[Mark CMG]

I guess I'm a spoiled brat too, then, because I would have wanted to change the characters too.

On the DM side of the screen, I would have let them. I think letting the players enjoy themselves is the primary goal of the game, not DM ego gratification.

Did you have access to the materials in advance?

 

[airwalkrr]

Therein lies the rub. Were these people your buddies? It sounds like they were random strangers.

A couple of them were. And I was appalled. Although admittedly, I only play minis with them and had never played an RPG with them before. But that doesn't change anything. When I introduce a new adventure to my steady group and announce we will be using pregens, they moan just as much.

There's a level of trust necessary to show weakness. In the eyes of these people, sub-optimal PC = a weakness. Therefore, they sought to cover it up (with whining).

Were you older or otherwise more mature than them?

Cheers, -- N

I don't quite understand your last question. Is it a veiled insult or a serious query?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Seriously, when did D&D become a game based on character optimization?

August, 2000.

 

[Nifft]

I don't quite understand your last question. Is it a veiled insult or a serious query?

More of a compliment. I'm saying that it's mature to be able to divorce your feeling of enjoyment at a game from your perception of the odds being stacked in your favor.

But also, a bit of a question. I've got a few different players, some more mature than others, and they approach character generation and design very differently. (Not all that different in maturity from each other, but it's noticeable.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[jeffh]

August, 2000.

Nonsense. It's always been there; it's not even clear to me that it increased appreciably with 3E.

 

[Slife]

Seriously, when did D&D become a game based on character optimization?

August 9th, 2005, The "Incentive to play a kobold thread" is posted. Pun-Pun goes on-line August 28th, 2005. Human decisions are removed from character optimization. Pun-Pun begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

 

[airwalkrr]

I guess I'm a spoiled brat too, then, because I would have wanted to change the characters too.

On the DM side of the screen, I would have let them. I think letting the players enjoy themselves is the primary goal of the game, not DM ego gratification.

Who said anything about DM ego gratification? The point was to sit down and play, not gratify anyone's ego. If anything, letting the players change the characters only serves to gratify their egos since it encourages the entitlement attitude. That's not the way it is supposed to be. The only thing players should be entitled to is a fun game. It is up to the DM to provide that, but never, in all my years of DMing, have I ever found it necessary to give the players exactly what they THINK they want to let everyone have a good time.

And I should remind you I wasn't the DM, but the player in the WWD&DGD.

 

[airwalkrr]

Oh, and for goodness sake, give the players characters to run, not just sets of stats. Honestly, is four sentences of background too much to ask?

Well, I don't speak for everyone, but in my case, it is. I quickly developed a good background and personality for the halfling thief. He was a CG rogue, so I decided he was adventurous and brave to fault, a bit haughty and self-important, but very noble and caring about his friends. He had a tendency to be a bit annoying, especially since the game gave me enough time to develop catch phrases.

Rogue: Hey wizard, use your staff!
Wizard: Well, you know I have a sword.
Rogue: Oh...
*pause*
Rogue: Hey wizard, use your staff!

 

[airwalkrr]

I can see your point, but from what I've heard about the pregens, they weren't just sub-optimal. They were made to fail.

That belies the fact that we easily beat the adventure. And we didn't use the soundest tactics either. My character died, true, but that was because I was looking for him to have a heroic death (it was a one-shot after all). Had I played my character more cautiously (meta-gaming) and hadn't pretended like I didn't know a thing about hellcats then none of our characters would have died.

 

[airwalkrr]

More of a compliment. I'm saying that it's mature to be able to divorce your feeling of enjoyment at a game from your perception of the odds being stacked in your favor.

But also, a bit of a question. I've got a few different players, some more mature than others, and they approach character generation and design very differently. (Not all that different in maturity from each other, but it's noticeable.)

Cheers, -- N

Ah, then thank you. I tried not to be reactionary to the question since you rarely make veiled insults, if at all, here on ENworld.

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I think I am a lot more mature than many gamers these days. I wasn't much older than any of them as most of us are in our 20s, but they all had a much different perspective on the game apparently. To them, the object was win, win, win. To me, it was to have fun. And I guarantee you I had a lot more fun than any of them. Most of them had frowns or disgusted looks on their faces throughout the entire adventure while I was enjoying the hell out of it. If you ask me, my experience was apparently much more successful, unless of course you happen to like 2 and a half hours of brooding and whining.