Player Complaints About Pre-Gens
- Thread starter airwalkrr
- Start date
Bardsandsages
First Post
Psion said:
When running a game at a convention or event, the primary goal is to make sure the game can actually run in the time allowed. Letting players alter pre-gens takes time away from game play, and can adversely effects the game. If I create a pre-gen wizard and give him comprehend languages and the player changes it to an offensive spell, that could prevent the party from picking up an important clue when they overhear two shady characters plotting in a different language. Players have to trust that the pre-gen was made the way it was for a reason. Altering it can fundamentally screw up a game because the players are looking to min-max their character sheets without even knowing what they are getting into.
delericho
Legend
Bardsandsages said:
Adventure design shouldn't assume that the players will think to use that spell at that time anyway, especially in a time-limited game. Therefore, missing a clue must not be the death of the adventure.
In which case, switching out that spell might not be for the best, but it should be especially problematic.
To be fair, when running a one-shot game, I wouldn't allow the players to modify the sample characters, either. However, by the same token, I wouldn't give them obviously sub-par characters in the first place.
I've said it before, on another thread: the characters for a one-shot should be generated just after the one-shot adventure itself, and should be created with reference to the adventure itself. This clearly was not the case here (a Rogue in an adventure with one trap, no secret doors and no locks to open?).
Further, the characters should be built to be good in the opne or two areas favoured by their class, and should be iconic representatives of their class (so, no Paladin with Cha 10).
And it goes without saying that the characters should be mechanically correct (two-handed Fighter with a shield, Cleric of Moradin with disallowed Domains... although they did later fix that one). Well, it should go without saying, I guess
Oh, and for goodness sake, give the players characters to run, not just sets of stats. Honestly, is four sentences of background too much to ask?
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Psion
Adventurer
Bardsandsages said:
If the game has that much of a plot bottleneck in it that it relies on ONE SPELL, I wouldn't be blaming the players.
I hope if the PCs were designed with the adventure in mind, I'd pick up on that. It appeared in the case of Gethin Abbey, it was simply designed for "a party of 6 4th level characters."
Henry
Autoexreginated
Never done a D&D World Gameday, but in every Con I've ever run, I've not once had a player want to "optimize" their Pre-gen. However, I also rarely play 3E or 3.5 during these cons, either, as I more often offer different games for players to try out, so the pool of players familair enough to optimize is smaller.
I'm also an aberration, which I realize -- I'm the guy who'll take a character into the Tomb of Horrors for the fun of it, or who doesn't balk at starting naked with a chopped-off hand and a club and a loincloth in the bottom of a dungeon, because it sounds fun. Sure a heck beats watching a baseball game in the same time frame.
I'm also an aberration, which I realize -- I'm the guy who'll take a character into the Tomb of Horrors for the fun of it, or who doesn't balk at starting naked with a chopped-off hand and a club and a loincloth in the bottom of a dungeon, because it sounds fun. Sure a heck beats watching a baseball game in the same time frame.
greywulf
First Post
Well said all round, Psion. Gamers have it far too easy now. In my day..........
I don't agree that this came from OD&D though; I started gaming in 1977, and I'm pretty sure the munchkins invaded with AD&D. That's one of the reasons I stuck with the One True Red Book (at least, until I got the Rules Cyclopedia. That ruled our D&D gaming until Third Edition, but that's another story). In OD&D, I reckon powergamers played Elves, or not at all.
I put the latest batch of Munchkinitis down to computer gamers being introduced to the hobby, and WoTC pandering to their big, 3D-rendered explosive minds. Choice is good, but thinking that all choices are automatically available is bad. So is thinking that the only way to "win" is to have a stupidly powerful character. Computer games mentality, again.
I don't agree that this came from OD&D though; I started gaming in 1977, and I'm pretty sure the munchkins invaded with AD&D. That's one of the reasons I stuck with the One True Red Book (at least, until I got the Rules Cyclopedia. That ruled our D&D gaming until Third Edition, but that's another story). In OD&D, I reckon powergamers played Elves, or not at all.
I put the latest batch of Munchkinitis down to computer gamers being introduced to the hobby, and WoTC pandering to their big, 3D-rendered explosive minds. Choice is good, but thinking that all choices are automatically available is bad. So is thinking that the only way to "win" is to have a stupidly powerful character. Computer games mentality, again.
Crothian
First Post
airwalkrr said:
Not all of them are this way. In fact it has been quite a few years that I've seen a players act like a spoiled brat and that includes many game days and cons.
On the topic of players asking to alter the character, I've never seen it even be brought up. I doubt I'd allow it unless the players have a very convincing reason.
barrowwight
Explorer
Amen Henry...Amen
I can see your point, but from what I've heard about the pregens, they weren't just sub-optimal. They were made to fail. A paladin with a 10 charisma, and a rogue with nothing to do doesn't sound like a good way to introduce people to the game. You're teaching them that they roll some dice, and their character fails and dies while they twidle their thumbs. That is not fun. I wouldn't expect optimized characters with feats and spells from a dozen sources for a one-shot with pre-gens, but I would expect some characters thta are competent enough to do their jobs.
