Player has a super rogue, DM needs help.

[Draxus the Tainted]

I don't think it is fair to the PC for a DM to nerf him after the DM messed up by giving him something. You should find a way to make it challenging for him and the party, instead of getting someone to steal his stuff. That makes PC's real mad. Just use some enemies with True Seeing.

 

[TiQuinn]

Re: Player has a super rogue, DM needs help

Here's a couple of solutions:

1) Spells, spells, spells: A daylight spell or any other spell that can illuminate the area will make the shadowdancer completely visible. They need shadows in order to hide in plain sight. Similarly, complete darkness effectively evens up the sides....again no shadows, but then neither party can see.
Faerie Fire works wonders. Dispel Magic and True Seeing work as well since Hide in Plain Sight is a supernatural ability in nature.
Summon creatures capable of sensing the shadowdancer. Creatures with Scent and Keen Hearing can give away his location.

2) Use those modifiers! A shadowdancer just sneak attacked you and then backs up 5 feet and hides? Give his opponent modifiers to the Spot roll. He's aware of his attacker, and knows his general location. If a Spot check takes a -1 to every 10 feet of distance, then special circumstances can also give him a plus. Getting attacked by a source who moves in and out of visibility should give you a fair bonus to spot.

3) Why does there always have to be a conveinent shadow around? Use more daylight conditions or total darkness conditions. Furthermore, the shadowdancer's movement while hiding in this manner is restricted to being near the shadows. Make the environment in your NPC's favor, not the shadowdancer's.

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

In my experience, actually tinkering the rules to stop a certain character doing a certain something is a sure way to make the player feel picked upon. I'm sure he loves that ring but to me, if you can pull this off, then everyone is happy:


You will need:

Somewhere that the PC's are being chased out of. A lair or something for example. The Underdark would be perfect.

An NPC that the PC will want to survive.

A reason that the NPC has to go back from where the party rescued him from. For example, a Sverfneblin (that can't be spelt right...) is rescued from a raid but has to go back to his home in order to return a sacred warding device, but he has to go back through the chasing orc horde.


This is a little risky, but the PC might do something wonderful and give the ring to the NPC in order to get back to his people. But of course these things never go to plan.

If that doesn't work, offer money for it or get a family line to chase after it, claiming it as a heirloom.

Anyway. Those might work. The family line thing worked in my campaign, but the Underdark/orc/NPC thing would be loads more dramatic if it pulls off properly.

 

[Tortoise]

Turn the tables a in a twisted way.

He relies on not being seen so have him in a situation where he can't rely on his own vision.

Set up an objective he has to get to through areas of:

1: darkness, where a misstep can be harmful or even deadly

2: he can't look directly at the creatures he's trying to bypass, a group of basilisks

3: there are illusions all over the place and it is hard to tell what is and isn't real, hiding from the illusionist won't be so easy since the illusionist knows the illusions well enough that they won't act as camo to his eyesight

4: combinations of all of the above

Sure, he has lots of advantages right now, but some situations don't lend themselves to those advantages as well as others. Offer up some of these other situations. If he is with a full party, make sure to put in counters to some of their abilities along with these so that they all feel challenged and might not be able to fully compensate for each other's weaknesses.

He relies on making others sight fail, make his sight less useful or downright dangerous to him. Karmic balance and all that you know ...

 

[Plane Sailing]

blind fight only lets you reroll in case of cover- you are talking about blind sight. inv is not cover

If I might correct you, blindfight lets you reroll the miss chance from *concealment*. Cover adds to your AC, concealment gives a miss chance. Invisibility is 100% concealment and has a 50% miss chance. Blindfight effectively reduces it to a 25% miss chance. A very valid option to use against the rogue.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The problem is, he Hides (in plain sight) and then sneaks up on the enemy. He gets the sneak attacks then uses a five foot step to back off. The next round, he hides again.

Most creatures can't ever find him. His Hide is +25 or so.

I need a way to get rid of that ring.

First of all you have to address the question of whether you can attack while still Hiding. The core rules are unclear. I would say no. (Look in Song & Silence for advice on this issue.)

If he is standing in the open he is dead meat against a lot of enemies.

Faerie Fire will make it impossible for him to Hide. Any fog of miss will give a partial concealment bonus, negating all sneak attacks. Blur or a Blur potion will too. A couple Daylight spells will make the area shadowless.

The items are not the problem. You just need to take a good hard look at the rules and use some countermeasures.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

If I might correct you, blindfight lets you reroll the miss chance from *concealment*. Cover adds to your AC, concealment gives a miss chance. Invisibility is 100% concealment and has a 50% miss chance. Blindfight effectively reduces it to a 25% miss chance. A very valid option to use against the rogue.

Yes, that is correct.

Another counter is to use Deeper Darkness. If no one can see the Shadowdancer's special abilities yield zero net advantage.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

My usual strategy with my players is to let them get away with something like that for a while -- it makes them feel good, etc. They found a strategy that works. But the party should have some smart, thinking, resoning opponents by now -- some who have gotten to know the PCs very well, and it's those NPCs and groups that are going to make it difficult for the Shadowdancer to keep doing what he's doing.

If the NPCs know what to expect, a Glitterdust spell is a nice, low-level way to make everyone very visible. At higher levels, invisibility purge might help (I'd have to look at it -- it may not work against "hide in plain sight", but it's worth exploring).

There's Dust of Appearance.

There are a lot of undead and constructs that are not subject to sneak attacks.

Just make sure that there are big bad enemies that can learn form the mistakes of others, and of their underlinings, and that can plan for the future.

-rg

 

[Al]

Easy: readied actions.

When rogue pops out, have enemy fighters pummel him into paste, enemy clerics Slay Living him, enemy wizards Hold Monster him and monsters eat him for breakfast.

Alternately, Scent and non-visual methods of detection of very valid (Detect Magic is a good idea, as are Detect Thoughts and a host of others).

 

[Malin Genie]

IIRC Shadowdancers have to be near shadows (?within 10ft - I can't remember exactly) to use their HIPS ability.

Now combine this with

(a) Shadows provide concealment [see the section on concealment]
(2) Sneak Attacks cannot be made against opponents with concealment [see the description of Sneak Attack]

Now - where's your problem?