Player issue - help with a rogue

[Mark CMG]

Xilo - You seem to be approaching this from the standpoint that the player needs to make changes in the way he is doing things rather than you, as a DM, making any adjustments. I notice you are only commenting on suggesting that take that tact. Just an observation.

 

[Thunderfoot]

He has Improved Initiative and cannot get off a SA? Is he using a missile weapon under the 30' range?, still applies.

I think he should re-read the class skills and abilities and pay attention to some of the finer points of roguery - there is ALWAYS a way to Sneak Attack, even if the party are a bunch of pansy doo-doo heads that won't close. As long as he can strike first and they are flat-footed, he should be wracking up the damage.

If this fails, the party makes a nice target.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Also, for most rogues, I don't think criticals are generally as important, as the sneak attack damage is not increased on a critical.

However, if the Rogue has Telling Blow (PHB II) he add his sneak attack damage in every time he gets a critical, even if the hit doesn't normally qualify for sneak attack damage. This is probably why posters are suggesting ways to increase the Rogue's crit chances.

Olaf the Stout

 

[William drake]

Thanks for the comments. Like the other two I'm not sure what you mean by called shots, it would be great if you could explain a little.

Also he's using a short sword in in primary hand and a dagger in his off hand. He has Weapon Finesse and improved initive, but no crit boosters.

Sorry, I've played with Dm's before who've allowed players to make Called Shots to a foe: this means, you target a specific area, say, the head, but, the DC is harder now however if you do hit, then damage is done directly to that area. There is a system for it, but we play a more realistic, gritty combat so that may or may not work for you. Just a thought.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

One of my players is a rogue who is feeling a little useless in combat.

Rogues are a little useless in combat. :\

I'm not saying they can't be good, but look at all the suggestions needed just to bring him up to speed. You never see threads like this for fighters and wizards.

That said, if you want to be a good combat rogue, you need levels of fighter or swashbuckler. Period. You also need things to do when you can't sneak attack. If you can't sneak attack, don't bother rolling. Do something else. Like say max out your ranks in UMD, filch the wizard's wands, and start blasting things.

Rogues were never meant to be front-line fighters. They've got low HP and only moderate AC, medium BAB, and crap saves. If you're a single class rogue, you're not a melee fighter. Sneak up on an orc barbarian to see what I mean.

 

[takasi]

Another thing to consider is how often does the rogue get a surprise round?

If you are playing a rogue with core-only feats, you need to earn your name. Move as far in front of the party (within range of their shadowy illumination) and always hide and move silently while exploring. Put ranks in spot and listen so you get the jump on the enemy. Improved Initiative is helpful, but being able to listen at the door to be aware of enemies on the other side is extremely important.

Assuming a 16 dex and 10 wisdom, at 7th level very few opponents are going to spot or hear a +13, and very few are going to hide or move silently against a +10. With bow in hand open the dungeon door and get the drop on the orcs in the next room, win initiative, shoot again and then retreat. You are a better ranged fighter than a front line fighter anyway, and with a +1 shortbow he'll be able to easily hit the majority of flat-footed, no cover or melee (surprising them) CR 7 opponents with his +9 to hit. He'll deal two shots at 1d6+4d6 sneak, for an average of 35 points of damage before the enemy even gets to react. If he's smart he'll drop the weakest opponent (maybe the wizard).

What should he do during combat? The most useful ability? You can ready an attack against a spellcaster with the trigger "if she starts casting a spell." Casters prefer to avoid melee, so the shot shouldn't be impossible to hit. And a DC 13 (on average) concentration check may not sound to hard to beat, but many CR 7 casters aren't going to have +13. When the enemy wizard botches his check and loses the fireball spell everyone will thank the rogue. As an added bonus, the enemy wizard may draw his attention to the rogue and waste a reflex DC based spell on him too.

Are there ever any opportunities to sneak up and kill a lone guard who would alert the rest of the dungeon of the party's presence? This is another iconic role for the rogue, and it's an essential part of designing a balanced challenge for the party.

Also, is the DM awarding XP for disarming traps? And how often are you finding traps? Or secret rooms with hidden treasure? In one of our campaigns I give out xp for every room fully explored and every trap disarmed. The rogue may not be the most effective player in combat, but he should be the most useful outside of combat. He hogs up the spotlight at least 1/4 of the time, and when he does it he does it alone (again earning his name).

If the DM always surprises the party, never places lone guards and puts in few (and unrewarding) traps then the rogue will appear to be useless.

As for asking for help from the rest of the party during combat, here are some suggestions:

-Ask the fighter to grapple an opponent
-Ask the cleric or bard to bless you (or some other buff)
-Ask the wizard to cast invisibility and/or silence on you

You can also Use a Magic Device to cast buff spells on yourself (a 10 charge wand of invisibility and/or silence should last a long time for only 180 gp per usage vs 600 gp using potions).

Also, the wizard and fighter do not have diplomacy as a class skill, and even the cleric (with few points to spare for diplomacy anyway) doesn't have bluff, sense motive, gather info or knowledge (local), so is the rogue getting his fair share of opportunities outside of the dungeon?

 

[pawsplay]

It seems to me this party is really slacking off in the grease, glitterdust, and fiendish wolves department.

Improved Initiative plus a decent Dex should be a free sneak attack with every meal. What's going on there?

Weapon Finesse? Or a decent Str? Yes?

I'm a little baffled.

As for Invisible Blade... it can make a good feinter better, but it's not going to help someone much who doesn't get sneak attacks in now. It's much more important to build a solid base than to enter the class early. As the prereqs are a little odd, taking good feats can be more useful than this class's abilities.