Players as nobles and landowners.

[Jack99]

My players, who are 8th level, have just become nobles and been awarded some land. They got the titles and land from making contact with other civilizations and enabling their city and the Church of Kord to make deals and secure trade agreements before the information spread to anyone else (The players come from a people who fled a dying world through a portal some years back, and have yet, because of several other factors, to make contact with anyone civilized from the new world).

Anyway, this is not something I have done before, or rather; it’s not something I have done with any kind of verisimilitude involved.

I was wondering what kind of advice/resources you guys would advice for making this a believable, yet balanced experience. My plan was initially to use Magical Society: Western Europe to create the land they have been awarded, and figure out what kind of money they will get, but maybe there are things to consider not in that book.

They have been awarded a piece of land roughly 5x5 miles, which has some forest, a little bit of swamp, some hills with a copper mine and a salt quarry, and plenty of arable land. There will be two villages in the area, which will total around 2.500 inhabitants.

According to MS:WE, this will net them a profit of around 50k per year. The plan is of course that, should the players wish to, they can do things that will influence the population of the area, and thus their pockets.

Anyway, if anyone has an idea or comment/advice, it would be much appreciated. Just to be clear. I am not looking for plot hooks. Just ideas to make this a more realistic experience.

 

[Roger]

My players, who are 8th level, have just become nobles and been awarded some land.

Which treasure parcel did you use for this?


Cheers,
Roger

 

[Ydars]

I would do two things if you intend the PCs to get land and run it for profit.

1) Do not give them lots of people who owe them service at the beginning. The PCs should have to work to attract people to their lands (unless there is no source of free humans anywhere; i.e. all humans in your game are already someone else's serfs).

The reason is that lots of people means that the PCs can start to exploit all the resources in their land at once and the game becomes less fun for you as you have to come up with systems to deal with farming, mining, raising sheep etc at once. It is better to make them have to make meaningful choices about which resource to exploit.

It also means that you are less likely to make a serious mistake that allows the PCs to get their hands on unbalancing amounts of cash. If there is no village, then the PCs have to build one and this costs money and can actually reduce your headache if you want to run adventures more freely and have something for the PCs to spend their money on.

2) Build in, right from the beginning, mechanisms for reducing population and crop and animal yields so you can put the squeeze on when you need to to maintain game balance. If you have these mechanisms foreshadowed, then the players will be less likely to complain when you use them. For example, you said there is a swamp; let this be a source of flooding in times of heavy rain and disease that can strike at animals and humans. Insects live in swamps, so it is not too hard.

Similarly, mention how the arable land is on a slope and was recently cut out of the forest; later you can have rain wash soil away if the land is proving ridiculously productive.

Also establish a chain of command with their lord immediately; have him send his tax collectors to visit and make an inventory of the players land when they first get it. Have the lord pay a visit with his entourage when then PCs build their first hall (this can also be a good way to drain money off as the upkeep for a noble and his cronies for three weeks was astronomical and there are accounts of it almost bankrupting nobles in medieval times). Indeed staying too long was a form of punishment for unworthy vassals.

Also establish that in return for this land, the lord expects something; tax money, a certain number of troops in time of war and sometimes specific commodities (like salt) were common relationships.

Just make the land and its upkeep and general maintenance something that can also have drama, setbacks, challenges, as well as rewards or it quickly becomes problematic.

Have a fun game.

 

[justanobody]

Which treasure parcel did you use for this?


Cheers,
Roger

I would bet the one on page 42 of the DMG.

Well now the PCs have a 25 square mile area to explore on their own to clean out of monsters and take care of on top of their regular adventuring.

They will need to defend it from squatters, maybe hire people to tend the land if they plan on doing anything with it.

They could set up a nice little business for local tithes to be paid from on the land if they have a river where they can build a mill (corn, wood, rice, etc)

As nobles for this fiefdom, they also now have an obligation to the reigning party to come when called for services, without any more reward, else risk having their land, titles, and all other benefits to it revoked.

So they will probably need someone that can keep track of them in case of such a summons that can deliver it to them.

There is much fun and danger to owning land, but the DM will pretty much control everything that goes on for ti when the party is not near it.

The main thing would be make sure it plays into your plot, and also don't let them become complacent with this patch of dirt.

Pretty much they have rights as the owners and that which is bestowed via their new titles, but other than that it is still controlled fully by the DM, like any town with NPCs.

Run wild with it!

 

[Jack99]

Which treasure parcel did you use for this?


Cheers,
Roger

I pooled the monetary treasure from all level 11 and 12 parcels and used around 80% of it for this, leaving a bit of cash for whatever monsters they might be slaying at that moment. I used those levels, since they will most likely be around said level before they collect the money (since that's when taxes etc are due).

Or, you could say that I am not a slave of the rules, and long ago decided to treat the treasure parcel rules as nothing but a guideline.

 

[Pinotage]

While Feudal Characters: Noble from Alea Publishing Group is not really what you're after, it's a nice noble multiclass concept that can give characters a more 'noble' feel.

 

[Thasmodious]

When I've done this in the past, I play it out much like an TBS like the Civilization series or village building components of RTS games, its a resource management game. I write up a breakdown of the population, working age, children, elderly. The first order of business is food, how many people will one farmstead on that land feed. Then its a matter of making sure food output (and with a forest on the land, you can dedicate some people to hunting) exceeds need, record surpluses if there is the means to store it. To maintain buildings and build new ones, as well as carts and other needs, lumber is a necessity, so you have to some of the populace in that business. A percentage needs to the artisans and properietors of the town, the blacksmith, barkeep, tailors and the like. It's easier, imo, to just decide on a percentage rather than break it down individually by profession. Basically, what I'm saying is just to sit down and think about what a community needs (a guidebook can be excellent help) and allocate that with some sort of system that you build as you go, and stick with that. If you decide the average farmstead on your land can sustain 50 people, write it down and stick with it, its part of your resource management mini-game now.

Most likely, the PCs hire some administrative types to handle the mundane tasks of resource management for them, in which case most of this stuff is handled by the DM as part of prep time, which the NPC administrators bringing problems to the PCs as required. This is fine, of course, but you can still barrage them with minor problems, arguments among administrators over resource allocation (he's wanting to take too much lumber and the hunters feel their livlihood is threatened). You have room to RP this as much as you like, having one of the PCs lords have to sign off on renting land for a new farmstead or visit the mining operation to meet the foreman, etc.

Which is another thing, if trade is part of this minigame, you need to decide what resources the land grants that is either valuable in and of itself or has value through surplus (like plenty of lumber, an overabundance of food) and how much it can give based on the workforce available. You can RP negotiations with other nobles in regards to how many "units" of mined silver they can trade for how many units of the things they need, again going back to what is needed to sustain the population and allow for growth.

I just write everything down and tweak the number as needed and go by what makes sense... hmm, every 100 people would require about 10 to support them, a tailor, a blacksmith, a leatherworker, tavernkeeper, etc., so 10% of the population is always in the service business, another 20% represent the families and staff of those service individuals, those hundred people require two farmsteads, with 10 people per farmstead, family plus farmhands for another 20%, 10 in lumber/construction/maintanence, and so on. Just fill a need as you think of it and don't forget castle staff as well, and the laborers, servants, and administrators required for all of that.

It's been awhile since i've done this myself and its tempting to do again. With the ease of adventure prep now, the spare time to handle the resource management wouldn't be much of a problem, and its fun (to me at least). Not to mention its the easiest source of adventure hooks around.

 

[Roger]

I pooled the monetary treasure from all level 11 and 12 parcels and used around 80% of it for this, leaving a bit of cash for whatever monsters they might be slaying at that moment.

Okay, that gives us a base value of about 35 thousand. My hunch is that a reasonable rate of return on something like that would fit in right around the #10 treasure parcel for the party level.

On a really good year they might get #9; in a bad year, they might only get half of #10 or even nothing at all.

That's how I'd be inclined to run it, in any case.


Cheers,
Roger

 

[amysrevenge]

One thing you could consider is running property maintenance like a Skill Challenge.

 

[frankthedm]

According to MS:WE, this will net them a profit of around 50k per year. The plan is of course that, should the players wish to, they can do things that will influence the population of the area, and thus their pockets.

Anyway, if anyone has an idea or comment/advice, it would be much appreciated. Just to be clear. I am not looking for plot hooks. Just ideas to make this a more realistic experience.

Well first and foremost players have to decide how they really feel leaching off other's hard work Those 50,000 gp are the spoils of keeping the majority of those 2500 in grinding poverty that epitomizes the commoner's lot in life.

Also do not give the cash in lump sums. At most, quarterly returns are appropriate. Giving each player {assuming 5 players] 2500gp four times a game year helps encourage the players to spend the money on lesser purchases rather than on one super item. Monthly payments are even better; 833gp, 3 silver and 3 copper per person will disappear like nothing.