Players challenging rulings

Happy Monkey

First Post
It irks me greatly, enough to want to post on it.

Am I being unreasonable?

The situations are different and it does not come up too often but when it does it rattles me. I do consider myself to be reasonable (who doesn't?) to suggestions but I do not give out information that the pcs would not know.

I think that this may have something to do with it but I am adament that I do not want to justify the whys or hows npcs/environment does whatever.

I also feel that one player in particular simply does not trust my competency as a dm.

This all said, usually the games are fun.

The question is then how should I deal with this? :(

Thanks...
 

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They challenge a ruling? Dock 'em XP! Send out a grudge monster! They'll learn to accept "The DM is always right".

:D

Oh, wait, that's HackMaster (almost as good as 3E, but a lot harder to find players for.)


Chris
 

There are a couple ways.

Stop the game and look up the correct ruling

Have someone out of the action look it up while you deal with other things. This way it doesn't totally kill the momentum.

Make a ruling, but write it down and look up the rule later.

But if he's just challenging you to challenge you, pull out rule zero and do something totally odd. :D
 

Depends on the situation. As a player I want the DM to be open to discussion, especially if the ruling has serious consequences. You can't take up to much game time for this so make the effort to find a quick answer. I like the suggestion of making the ruling and then researching it later if it's taking too long to find the answer. Just be willing to admit you were wrong if you were. Hopefully the player will be as gracious.
 

Wow you guys are fast!

Hackmaster? hmm:p

The issue is seldom game mechanics, my knowledge there is far greater than the players. In this regard we do go by a ruling if in doubt and look it up later.

No, it is usually something like:

"that river wouldn't bowl a golem over" (the golem lost balance on the riverbed)

"the charging giant power attacks?" (virtually guaranteed to hit, the giant sacrifices some skill for extr damage on its solitary attack)

or

"why would he try to sunder?" (has the feat and attack bonus far outstrips the character = easy success)

I have not explicitly spelt out my displeasure but I am very unsubtle.

It probably is worth mentioning that at the beginning of starting 3rd ed, there were a heap of bad rulings by everyone (rotating dms).
 

Yeah, those are the DMs call to make.

My players are kinda ticked at me now because the bad guys are now trying to attack their weapons.

"WHY would they do that when they know if they kill us, they won't get our stuff? We don't do that to THEM! Why? Because we WANT their stuff!"

Granted, it's only happened once, but I warned them that it could happen more often. The one turned his Rod of Lordly Might into a spear and chucked it. The bad guy had her golem start beating on it. The look I got from the player... LOL


Chris
 

I am not a terribly wise person. I know it. My players know it. Sometimes I make rulings they object to. Sometimes I sense these objections are made because the player is unhappy with an outcome unfavorable to his character and figures "what the heck, maybe I can get him to change his mind." Other times I sense that maybe they have a point and I made a bad call. If the consensus is that it was a really bad call, I will reverse it on the spot. If it's merely questionable or can be rationalized more than one way (I.E. my way and their way), I ask that they play along and we'll discuss it after the session.

The best way to deal with a player challenging your ruling is to note the disposition of the group. Is only one player objecting? More than one? The whole group? If the player group in general is objecting, perhaps you erred in judgement. No harm, no foul, reverse it and move on. If one vocal player is objecting - and no one else - and you feel you made the right call, stand your ground. Discuss it with him after the game.

In the last session I ran, I made a couple of snafus that resulted in some disgruntled players. I also had a player gripe because I wouldn't let him keep a good roll that was irrelevant to the situation. After the session we discussed things:

  • We discovered that both disgruntled player and DM had misunderstood the rules governing commanding/rebuking animals. No harm, no foul, we understand the rules now and are on the same page to boot.
  • As as result of the command/rebuke snafu, the fighter's player lost out on a couple of actions he'd have made differently. He was initially disgruntled, but after discussing it we agreed that either way his actions would have had little effect on the situation's outcome, thus rendering the gripe moot. I did apologize anyway.
  • The monk's player had been rolling poorly all night and became upset when I told him to roll something. He rolled well, then I changed my mind and told him that the check I had him make didn't matter. It didn't, I had misunderstood his intent. He asked if he could keep the roll for his next action in the combat round, which was several minutes away. I told him no, he got mad. After the session he pressed his case, but I stood firm; I was sorry he'd rolled porrly all night, but you can't "save" rolls for later use. After all, if he'd have rolled poorly he wouldn't have said anything about keeping it ;)

I have found that asking the players to save their gripes until after the session results in cooler heads, since the immediacy of the situation has gone by. Also, minor gripes are forgotten, and legitimate gripes can be discussed maturely by all participants, at length, until a solution is achieved. Be fair, but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself as DM. Your game, your rules. Don't let disgruntled players boss you around. :)
 

Remember though that it's the players' game as much the DMs. As a DM I usually listen to my players; if I make a mistake, I usually correct it. My players though like to torpedo even each other with rules issues, so it's all good in the end.
 

Just to play Devil's Advocate...

I agree with almost everything that's been said, but I would caution DMs to not make their monsters omnisicent. I got called for it by my players after my monsters consistently took advantage of character weaknesses that they couldn't have known by direct observation.

Having the Fire Giant with the Huge Heavy Flail, levels in Fighter, and Improved Disarm is all well and good, but that Giant shouldn't go right after the person with the best weapon unless a) He's been hit by it and knows it's a real threat, or b) it's composed of brilliant energy and has blue-black tendrils of energy snaking along its length and flicking out to zap nearby insects while a magical voice intones "Death to Fire Giants" over and over again in Dwarven.

Not saying you're doing that -- but it WAS something that I did do in the past without thinking about it. Now I keep track of myself, and try not to be a jerk.

The other side of the coin,
-Tacky
 


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