Players creating setting elements

[S'mon]

From another thread:

As a DM I like it when the players create bits of the world - nations, races, characters, magic items - it enriches the universe and means less work for me.

I think there's a fine art to getting players to create setting elements and have it work right. Eg, if you have a min-max powergamer player, don't let him create and stat out the NPCs of the nation his PC rules! I made that mistake. It was particularly bad because his PC was patron deity of the nation, and the player got the idea that it was a "Player Character Nation", with every element of the country an extension of his own will. It ended up being not much fun to GM. If I had let him create the backgrounds & personalities of some NPCs while I did all the stats, I think it could have worked great. I did that with another PC, an exiled prince, for his background area and it really brought the setting to life when he returned to claim the crown.

Likewise, if you have a player with a degree in anthropology, be careful about letting her detail the cultures of the game world - you may get something that's rich, detailed, historically accurate and unplayable for the kind of game you want to run. One player of mine has a thing for historically accurate Sumero-Assyro-Babylonian naming conventions, leading to NPCs with names that are unprounceable by me, the GM.

I generally find that creating NPCs with player input is great, as long as it's a back-and-forth process - eg player comes up with initial concept for a cohort, GM fleshes out the character and introduces them into the game, they are played by the GM, but then once their character is established, GM alllows the player to play them where appropriate. I've found that "OK, it's your cohort, you create them and play them" works very badly for typical min-max players; you always get a cardboard-cutout voiceless Cleric whose sole purpose in life is to keep the PC safe and sound, and who at least doubles that player's power in-game, overshadowing the other players.

Thoughts? What kind of thing has worked well for you as GMs, allowing or encouraging players to create setting elements? And what hasn't worked so well?

Edit: Not thinking so much about cases where the PC actually creates a setting element in character, like the Cleric who builds a temple or the Rogue who buys and refurbishes a tavern/inn, but things created by the player that may only have a tangential relation to the PC.

 

[Peni Griffin]

This tends to happen naturally in the games I've played in; first, during character creation, then off-the-cuff during roleplay. DM gives players a setting and a notion of the situation into which the character must fit; player creates character with backstory; DM uses backstory to flesh out setting.

For instance, I was starting out with the Sunless Citadel, so I described Oakhurst to the players and told them to make characters who had a stake in it. The backstories for the characters used existing NPCs from the module, created new ones, expanded the setting out to include a monastery where Sir Tib had studied with the missing paladin in the adventure, and created personal connections between the PCs. As we progressed in the game, in-character chat and creative riffing among players and DM expanded the NPC base. The players told me what their families and connections were like; I played the families and connections, and when necessary I statted them up.

The world now includes Lord Aristide, the good-ole-boy retired adventurer father of Sir Tib, his old adventuring buddy Toby Dingle the athiest hobbit wizard, now retired and teaching school in Oakhurst, Abbot William Budd of the Ecumenical Monastary of Benevolent Doctrines, the extensive and talented Hawthorne family, a jolly domestic set up at the Old Boar Inn, the redneck Bail family, Uncle Bishop Wulfstan, and the redoubtable one-eyed, hard-drinking, hard-bargaining, dog-training Aunt Wulfina, who rules her dwarfen kin (including the bishop) with an iron pegleg.

Don't try to get them to do your work for you, and don't think you have to have everybody you're going to run as an NPC statted up before you run them. Use what they give you, go with the flow, and keep the ball in the air.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I've been working on this quite a bit the last few games. It's going pretty slow, but it is a steady step.

One of the PC's has a crew he's in command of. As things come up during the game, we're constantly seeing what sort of folks are in there. As things come up, we make note of them. The crew just keeps getting mroe interesting. It's a lot of fun because the entire table is having a terriffic time throwing in ideas and suggestions.

The same PC with the crew has a younger brother. There were some off-hand ideas about the younger brother getting into trouble because of his girlfriend. By the time we were done building chracters, one of the players was now the girlfriend's elderly grandfather, and she was the rightful heir to the throne (that the younger brother is getting).

What I've found works is doing things in a group. Have multiple people at the talbe there, and just discuss ideas freely. When something cool happens, jump on it, and ride it out. Get really enthusiastic when something cool is said, and pretty soon more people will speak up.

I think the group dynamic really helps. You get a lot of positive feedback from the rest of the players. When you do something cool, everyone knows. The other players get to add their ideas in to everyone's stuff. This makes it cooler during someone else's subplot, because the sneaky werewolf bodyguard was your suggestion. And finally, everyone acts as a set of checks. If someone smells something fishy, it's more likely to come up, and everyone's a little more likely to be honest if everyone else gets a say.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm fine with a player creating interesting elements connected to his own background, subject to my review. But other than that, I've found directly player created content to be problimatic.

Obviously, character created content is an entirely different story. Character created content is something greatly to be encouraged, but this is of course an entirely different thing that player created content.

 

[S'mon]

I think the group dynamic really helps. You get a lot of positive feedback from the rest of the players. When you do something cool, everyone knows. The other players get to add their ideas in to everyone's stuff.

Thanks ThoughtBubble - this round-table creation is interesting, and not something I've tried. My experience has tended to tally with Celebrim's, that players detailing their background usually works great, but other things can cause problems.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I've always encouraged my players to come up with elements for the campaign setting. Luckily, each time they did, the results were nearly always great. It give the players a sense of "ownership" in the setting, especially if it's a homebrew like mine always are.

 

[Thomas Percy]

Most of all, my players create excellent PCs which become improtant NPCs after retirement.

 

[Zulgyan]

When PCs want to be clerics or paladins, I usually let them make up the gods or godesses under my approval.

 

[an_idol_mind]

I handle player additions to the setting the same way I handle pieces of other settings that I steal for my campaign. If the idea is a good one, it gets worked in, but usually modified in some way to fit what already exists. That way the setting looks like a finely woven tapestry, rather than a patchwork cloak.

 

[Hussar]

I've found that "OK, it's your cohort, you create them and play them" works very badly for typical min-max players; you always get a cardboard-cutout voiceless Cleric whose sole purpose in life is to keep the PC safe and sound, and who at least doubles that player's power in-game, overshadowing the other players.

Stop playing with people whose playstyles vary radically from your own?

Ok, that may be a bit snarky, but, really, that's what it boils down to. If everyone is on the same page playstyle-wise, then these problems tend to vanish. If you are a story driven DM playing with min/maxer kick in the door players and simulationists, then perhaps there are issues here that should be resolved before play begins.