Players don't provide wish lists... What would you do?

[Oryan77]

I'd call that overdoing it just a tad. Stating an occasional preference in no way equates to "dictating and always getting".

I'm not as strict on that rule as it may have sounded. If a PC wanted a specific item (that their PC might know about...not because the player read about that item in a D&D book), and he asked around in-game about something like that, I'd create a quest for them that would end with them getting the item. Or if they were willing to pay a lot more for it, they could try to find a mage that would make the item for them.

But really, I made that rule because I had a couple of players before that would not shut up about what they wanted their PC to have. Part of the fun for me as a DM is to surprise PCs with items that they didn't expect to get that they would really like for their PC. And when they tell me "I really hope I find this item *hint hint*", and I just happened to have already included that as future treasure, then it really seems lame if I give it to them. It also takes the fun out of it for me. I don't want them to think that all they have to do is mention an item to me and they'll eventually get it. I don't approach D&D in the way where "it's just a game" and the players get to optimize their PCs 100%. That's just not how I like to play the game.

Really, these guys were bad about it. All they did was read magic items in every book and email me what they wish their PC had (in hopes I'd throw it in the game). Wish lists are very cheesy to me (no offense to anybody). So I made that rule mainly to keep players from ruining my own fun as DM.

 

[Aeolius]

If a PC wanted a specific item... and he asked around in-game about something like that, I'd create a quest for them that would end with them getting the item. Or if they were willing to pay a lot more for it, they could try to find a mage that would make the item for them.

That's pretty much how I handle it, as well. The less meta-gaming the better - spoils one's sense of immersion. Granted, when they pay the mage to make said item, the mage would need them to quest to a faraway land to obtain some rare component.

If a party of PCs found a "magic shop" in one of my games, they might come across a store selling material components, parchment, blank spell books, alchemical items, and the like.

 

[Wycen]

Perhaps this is a symptom of another problem?

In the 2nd to last 4E campaign I participated in, I was asked more than once for wish lists and given the opportunity to create bits of the campaign area. You know, "write up the village you were born in". In return for that we'd get a bonus custom magic item. Note I used the word participate, not Play.

I didn't submit any wish lists and never bothered to give any deep thought to my character or the world. I was along for the ride.

Maybe your players are just along for the ride?

 

[Janx]

the OP has made several attempts and adjustments to solve his wishlist problem, and it seems the fault now lies on the players...

For me, not being a 4e user, I'm used to random treasure generation tables for most encounters. I might hand-pick items for a BBEG. I only really take requests for specific items when I make a quest FOR that item (ie. PC says I want +2 flaming longsword, I tell him where he can go find one).

At this point, I think the GM picking items for his party as best guesses and/or rolling randomly is sufficient. He's tried doing it the official way. No sense changing the economics of the game.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Go with random stuff. Don't hand out plain +x items and try to avoid repeats.

My guess is that your players are only complaining about the 20% rule because they're greedy bastards, not because they're genuinely struggling for magic items or cash.

 

[sjmiller]

I will admit up front that I have not played 4e, nor have I read all of the PH for 4e. I am curious though, does the game really tell you to submit wish lists of magic items you want for your character? To me that would take away some of the fun and mystery of finding a treasure. More often then not in game I have been in the person running the game either picks what items go into a treasure horde or they are determined in some random manner. I've never heard of such a thing, and it would freak me out if I was asked to do that. Maybe your players prefer the mystery of the treasure horde. Also pay attention to what they keep and what they sell. That should tell you something right there.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Dykstrav, if you want to be a perfect gentleman about this, the only thing you can do that you haven't already done is to straight up ask your players "How DO you want me to handle treasure?" But from your description of events, I'd say you're also justified in doing whatever the hell you want because apparently nothing makes your players happy anyway.

I will admit up front that I have not played 4e, nor have I read all of the PH for 4e. I am curious though, does the game really tell you to submit wish lists of magic items you want for your character?

The DMG says [paraphrased] "tailor treasure to the characters," "if nobody in the party uses a bow, don't give them a magical bow" and then goes on to suggest "an easy way to do this is to ask your players for wish lists."

As a DM, I use inherent bonuses and then give my players the option of asking me for specific items or to have me choose whatever catches my eye for them. As a player, I like a little mystery in what I find but I hate getting junk that I can't use instead of the stuff I need. So my wish lists look like: magical weapon/implement, magical armor, magical neck item, surprise me with the details.

 

[Dykstrav]

I appreciate everyone's insights and suggestions.

I think what I'm going to do is go with the inherent bonus thing. That seems the simplest solution to implement. Conversely, I could just knock one off of the defenses of every critter the characters fight... But either way, I'm done with asking for parcels and I don't want to spend time picking items for them.

Still, I think the magic item thing is just one symptom of larger problems with my group or my DMing style. We'll see how this game turns out.

 

[Mircoles]

I've never used wish lists and likely will just do things the old fashion way.

I've never had a problem with magic shops as long as they make sense. Walmart-like magic shops just shouldn't exist.

Most Items in shops likely got there because an adventurer or former adventurer fell on hard times and had to sell his hard earned magic item or it could be someone that tried adventuring and came to the conclusion that it's not worth putting his life in danger anymore. So he sells the items he collected during his short adventuring career.

I general assume that most "shop" magic items will be of heroic level only. Paragon level items may show up, but rarely and likely only in large towns or cities. Epic items would likely never show up in a shop, though it wouldn't be impossible.

The majority of magic items are commissioned pieces and if a player wants a specific magic item, he can pay an enchanter to make it.

 

[Umbran]

I'm not as strict on that rule as it may have sounded. If a PC wanted a specific item (that their PC might know about...not because the player read about that item in a D&D book), and he asked around in-game about something like that, I'd create a quest for them that would end with them getting the item. Or if they were willing to pay a lot more for it, they could try to find a mage that would make the item for them.

That sounds fair enough.

But really, I made that rule because I had a couple of players before that would not shut up about what they wanted their PC to have.

Ah. A couple bad apples spoiling the barrel for everyone. Unfortunate, that.

I don't approach D&D in the way where "it's just a game" and the players get to optimize their PCs 100%. That's just not how I like to play the game.

Yes. There's a certain achievement in playing the rules to make you the best that you can be. But if doing that requires that you harass a real-world person... well, that's not an achievement within the rules.