Players don't provide wish lists... What would you do?

[Tequila Sunrise]

Still, I think the magic item thing is just one symptom of larger problems with my group or my DMing style. We'll see how this game turns out.

That's too bad. What larger problems do you see?

 

[Orius]

You could go the RBDM route and be very literal; if they're not telling you any thing, then that must mean they don't want anything, so give them exactly what they want -- nothing . However, I don't really recommend this.

If they don't say anything then just roll the stuff up randomly. Match up no more than half the weapons with the weapons they like to use (if you roll enough random wnes, don't change the others). Most players go for the standard weapons anyway, longswords, battle axes, bows, staffs, and the occasional spear, and since the magic item tables usually tend to generate those it should be fine. Few players go for the really exotic stuff, and if you have a player or two who has, then deliberately place one or two here and there, and let the PCs hear rumors about such items. Either that, or put them in a treasure where they don't seem to be out of place (maybe a small arsenal of unusual non-magic weapons with one or two ones that are magic).

 

[Glyfair]

The DMG says [paraphrased] "tailor treasure to the characters," "if nobody in the party uses a bow, don't give them a magical bow" and then goes on to suggest "an easy way to do this is to ask your players for wish lists."

Indeed, that's how I read it. I have always asked for wish lists and got back a little feedback, enough for me to work with.

For my style as a player, I strongly agree with the style. I have seen players who wanted to play the unusual weapon (say a cestus) using fighter in the old days and give up because all the magic weapons were the more common long swords, short swords, bows and slings. When the GM did get a clue and put in a weapon of that sort it was as often as not something the GM found cool, that the player really found not very interesting.

The basic point of the DMG is that magic items are supposed to be cool things for the players to use (or maybe destroy in the rare situation). They shouldn't be things there for the players just to go sell. While it has a very "old school" feel, I don't enjoy the sort of game where you gather the magic items and then spend hours figuring out how to sell them, how much you get, and then how to take the money and get what you really want.

The wish list is just a tool in that direction. It's not supposed to be the be-all and end-all.

 

[Shemeska]

I've never had players provide a wish list of items.

To be perfectly honest I find the very concept bizarre and the complete opposite of where I come from as both a DM and as a player within a campaign.

 

[Dykstrav]

That's too bad. What larger problems do you see?

My current batch of players do not seem interested in the game outside of combat encounters. I've been playing with them since June of 2008 and I still can't tell if it's because they just dig fighting and nothing else or it's because my narrative and plots don't catch their fancy.

When I give them something besides fights (puzzles, investigations, mysteries, NPCs to interact with), they stumble over their own feet trying to figure things out and interact with the setting in character. It's gotten to the point where they ask for Insight checks when confronted with a plot or NPC, and they want to resolve all interaction through dice rolls.

There's nothing wrong with a good combat encounter, or even several of them in rapid succession. But I'd like to see the characters make meaningful choices outside of combat. Things like deciding which NPC to believe, which temple or noble to support, whether or not they should pursue certain agendas. But they don't seem to like choices. They seem happiest when presented with clear-cut, right-or-wrong situations and several things to kill.

The thing that is really, really frustrating me is that the players tell me that my game is the best one they've ever played, and they keep trying to bring in new players. (A growing game is supposed to be a good game, right?) It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Dykstrav]

I've never had players provide a wish list of items.

To be perfectly honest I find the very concept bizarre and the complete opposite of where I come from as both a DM and as a player within a campaign.

Yeah, it's a 4E thing. The DMG actually tells you to solicit wish lists from players every level. I don't think it absolutely says you must... Something like, "the best way to do this," or "a great way to do this." Still, I like the idea and want to implement it.

Why? Because players can take up some of the work of adventure design. If the guy who plays the fighter loves items that grant rerolls, he can scour Adventurer's Vault for those items and give me a list, rather than have me scour Adventurer's Vault and jot down a list. It doesn't mean that he;s getting every item he wants (or maybe not nay of them), I just save myself the hour or so it takes for me to find treasure that is useful and interesting to them, and the players get useful items instead of totally random things they might not care about.

Besides which, my players already do this sort of thing, they just don't go so far as to write it down in a list and turn it in. In the middle of combat, they'll say things like, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if you had meliorating armor?" "Man, I wish I had a vicious weapon right now." So... In addition to running the game, I also jot down notes about the players desires, and when they get those items, their reactions are indifferent.

I think it's reasonable to let the players assume some responsibility for how the campaign turns out. It doesn't threaten my control over the narrative or my ability to challenge the party by getting their players involved in the design process.

 

[Umbran]

I've been playing with them since June of 2008 and I still can't tell if it's because they just dig fighting and nothing else or it's because my narrative and plots don't catch their fancy.

This will seem an awfully silly question - have you explicitly asked? As in sitting down at the start of the session and said, "Guys, before we begin, I'd like to have a little talk. It seems to me that you guys like the fights, but that any time we are outside combat, you want to resolve everything with a couple of dice rolls to get on to the next fight. Is this correct?..."

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

My current batch of players do not seem interested in the game outside of combat encounters. I've been playing with them since June of 2008 and I still can't tell if it's because they just dig fighting and nothing else or it's because my narrative and plots don't catch their fancy.

What Umbran said.

My guess is that they are pleased with your campaign. Unless you live in a very gamer-sparse area, they have zero reason to lie to you. They might be the all-combat, all the time type players, in which case they'd likely prefer that you handle rp differently or not at all -- we all have minor things we'd like our DMs to handle differently. But they probably don't think about it much as long as they get enough combat.

Anyway, I'd just ask them.

 

[Nebulous]

I don't use wish lists at all, although a few times players have said "I'm too weak, i need an upgrade" so we fix it right there. In fact, i turned a +1 scimtar into a +2 scimitar on the spot because the player should have had one by then but i had forgot. Generally, i like seeding adventures with my own magic items, but i try to keep an eye on stuff they would want to use. If they don't like it they sell it. Many times i end up quickly scrounging through the AV for whatever silly trinket is in the lists. More rarely i will devise a unique magic item.

 

[Alan Shutko]

Part of the problem is that most players don't like homework. Scouring all the books for magic items is homework. Personally, I don't enjoy reading catalogs of items with "+X, with daily power". I am more inclined to read descriptions of wondrous items because they do weird stuff, but magic weapons and armor leave me cold in 4e. But those are the most important items to get right, since combats are balanced assuming certain plusses.

Even if I were inclined to spend all the time scouring items, I don't have all the books. I don't want to buy AV, AV2, and other stuff so that I can sit and do homework. The Rules Compendium is good for looking something specific up, but not for browsing. The Character Builder is a bit better, but it's still somewhat cumbersome for plain browsing (arrow keys never seem to move what I want them to move).