Player's Handbook 2: I haz it

[Plane Sailing]

Thanks so much for posting that. I really appreciate it.

That looks pretty weaksauce compared to Legion's Hold or whatever the ice one is called. If the target double moves or runs (or both) it can easily get out. It will have to waste a turn to do so, and it can be pushed back in, and everything, so it looks like a great power. But compared to the Wizard ones, it's nothing.

This is not a problem for me, though. I actually think many of the Epic-level Wizard dailies are WAY over the top.

?

Legions hold is potentially very good, meteor swarm is so poor it isn't even funny.

The benefits of slow depend upon how you run slow. If you run slow as "move = 2 no matter what" then it is a good condition and dangerous in this daily. If you run slow as "move rate = 2 but you can run or double move to increase that" then it is an all-but-useless condition. I'm on the former side of the fence, and if you tried running it that way I think your opinion of it would improve.

Cheers

 

[chando]

The thing is, Slow simple make your move = 2

Your speed becomes 2. This speed applies to all your
movement modes, but it does not apply to teleportation
or to a pull, a push, or a slide. You can’t increase
your speed above 2, and your speed doesn’t increase
if it was lower than 2. If you’re slowed while moving,
stop if you have already moved 2 or more squares.

While you can't increase your speed, run does not increase your speed. Is not "you gain a bonus 2 to speed". Its a move your speed(2 if slowed) + 2 squares and grant CA. That is fine to me, as the monster just granted CA to everyone. And he takes a -5 penalty to attacks and provokes OA. But by RAW, you can RUN or double move, or even double run if you want the move 8 squares. you are not increasing your speed. The slow does not prevent you from moving more then 2 in your turn. If you use a power that alows you to shif your wisdom, you shift that. If you use a power that aloes you to move your speed before the attack, you move your speed of 2.

Slow is nice as if the monster can't reach anyone in 2 squares, he have to run, grant CA and probably miss the attack. or double move (double run) and do no standard action this turn, making it close to daze. Its nice, but as an epic level controler power, its just not that nice, especially since we have creatures that teleport as a commun thing by this tier.

What kinds of cool stuff can the shaman do with her spirit at high level?

seconded!

 

[Plane Sailing]

The thing is, Slow simple make your move = 2

Not the place for a debate here - look up one of the old threads and get it going there if necessary!

Thanks

 

[WalterKovacs]

Slow is nice as if the monster can't reach anyone in 2 squares, he have to run, grant CA and probably miss the attack. or double move (double run) and do no standard action this turn, making it close to daze. Its nice, but as an epic level controler power, its just not that nice, especially since we have creatures that teleport as a commun thing by this tier.

The teleport might be a bit harder since the zone is one of darkness. Now, I don't know the actual text, but the description did say that the zone was dark, so it would block line of sight for some (if it's just normal darkness than darkvision solves that, but it might be more than that, not sure).

EDIT:

Unrelated but there was a power spoiled in the FAQ section on the wizard site: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1695

It's a level 7 Avenger encounter power that helps to keep tabs on an enemy (after you hit, if it moves you can slide it 2 squares as a reaction.) Can be useful in keeping your oath where you want it.

 

[jgsugden]

We obviously have a very different approach to the game. By now, we have been through a lot of characters, and to be honest, they look nor feel nothing the same to us, even when from the same class. /shrug
-Cheers

I think if you took all of the dwarven weapon and shield fighters out there and made a chart showing how many took each feat & fighter power, you'd see very definite and well defined trends. The same would be true of human charisma paladins, halfling rogues, etc... If your weapon and shield dwarves all look considerably different, I'd say that you're in the minority.

The majority of the 'differentiation' that I see these days comes as a result of multiclassing feats. If you don't multiclass, there are very few combinations of race / class that don't result in the same vanilla core character concept. In fact, I'd wager that if I asked 20 different random experienced and unbiased D&D players to make a 16th level dwarven weapon and shield fighter using (only) PHB I and Martial Power as resources:

* The stats would be substantially the same for 80% of the characters.
* I could find 6 or more feats (out of 10) that 80% of the characters have.
* At each power choice, the same choice(s) will have been made by at least 2/3 of the players (out of 6 to 9 choices available).

If we did this experiment, I'd wager that most of the differentiation would come from:

1.) Multiclassing (Paladins, Warlocks, Rogues, Rangers), and
2.) People that fail to remember they can retrain heroic feats into paragon feats at levels 11 through 16.

To me, that is too similar. If you wrote a story about a band of dwarven fighters wandering down into a dungeon, I'd want each to have their own trademarks - not be 80% a clone of their fellowship.

That being said, I think we're very close to off topic here - if you'd like to continue this discussion, we should probably make a new thread.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I think if you took all of the dwarven weapon and shield fighters out there ...

Snipping it there.

He said same class. Not same class, same race and same subset of a class (although, arguably, you probably wouldn't see a tempest dwarf ... although a two-handed weapon wielder wouldn't be out of the question with some of the cool superior weapons available to the dwarf).

Also considering that the dwarf does not get a bonus to the STR, and gets a bonus to CON and WIS ... it's not going to have a lot of viable stat arrays to choose from and still be a viable fighter. That is going to further limit the power and feat choices. Also, as a dwarven fighter, it's almost a sure thing that he'll take the dwarven weaponry feat ... so by limiting the dwarf to axes and hammers in almost all cases, you are going to have less variation of feats and less variation of powers, since those choices are going to, in part, be based on weapon choice.

Now if you don't choose a race/class combination that obviously leads to a single build type with limited options, there are going to be other examples that are more versatile. Humans are the easy example, as they can go with just about any sub-build without much worry.

The sword and shield fighter has a number of builds, as it doesn't lock you into a specific weapon choice, and the secondary stat associated with it (Con or Dex, not to mention Wisdom which works for most things in general).

 

[StormHarbinger]

Having had the PH2 for a couple of days now, I have to say that while I'm not sure power creep is a huge problem (although it may be!), I can say that whoever is writing for WotC has really found their groove in terms of flavor and coolness. The PH2 reminds me of Sword and Sorcery's Relics and Rituals sourcebook for 3rd Edition. Everything was just freaking COOL. The options presented in this book make the PH1 classes (canonical though they may be) pale in comparison for coolness in flavor.

 

[Rechan]

Having had the PH2 for a couple of days now, I have to say that while I'm not sure power creep is a huge problem (although it may be!), I can say that whoever is writing for WotC has really found their groove in terms of flavor and coolness. The PH2 reminds me of Sword and Sorcery's Relics and Rituals sourcebook for 3rd Edition. Everything was just freaking COOL. The options presented in this book make the PH1 classes (canonical though they may be) pale in comparison for coolness in flavor.

Mearls did say it was his best work yet.

 

[Glyfair]

Mearls did say it was his best work yet.

I wonder if he'd say the same thing now. He just mentioned that he finished working on the PHB III.

 

[Jack99]

I wonder if he'd say the same thing now. He just mentioned that he finished working on the PHB III.

Well, if it has improved....