Players: it's your responsibility to carry a story.

[ArghMark]

Hmm.. Can't say I've personally had this issue. I've had passive players before but even they know a hook when its biting.

Personally interested players might be the key. If I have an adventure the players should be wanting to play it; why are they buggering around in some tavern? I hit them with a plot hook, especially if they are dithering. All the stuff with sandbox/railroad I don't much care about to be honest; things just happen. For instance, somebody attacks them or a person in the inn. (Children are great to be kidnapped for instance.)

Example: You and your mates are having a couple of quick drinks in the tavern when you notice a fellow pay the innkeep a few copper and pass over a message, which he puts up on a board. Having a quick look you see there are some 'Wanted!' messages and the usual village messages, but the latest message is interesting. It says 'Hardy folks willing to swing a sword or cast a spell wanted for high paying work. Must not be adverse to danger. See Grimauld the Sage for more information. 10 Gold to start, 90 on completion for each member, maximum (Party size + 1).

If they ignore it, they spend a few days drinking and then the goblins attack the inn, kidnapping Grimauld the Sage. If they ignore that, ask them what they are playing for.


The GM must make things obvious. It is the players duty to take the hook, but the GM has the responsibility too.



Another example - stray cat from before. Players can't ignore a cat when it comes up and scratches them and steals their purse for instance.

 

[LostSoul]

What's really interesting to me these days is how the rules push or don't push players towards finding sources of adventure on their own.

I consider DM advice to be part of the rules. For example, in my 4E hack I have a lot of DM advice that says, "Do these things when the PCs head back to town for a rest." That's all about pushing consequences based on the actions the PCs have taken. The idea is that it starts a feedback loop, where one action changes the setting and requires more actions from the players.

It's an important part in the game and how the whole game hangs together.

 

[Clarabell]

Aha! I missed the highlighting ~--s - clearly this is why I am no good at computer games.

Like Neon said, I don't think this is good GMing technique. If you want the PCs to interact with the cat, give them an IC reason to do so.

Ok maybe I should explain the whole stray cat thing. This campaign was called “The Good Merchant.” The players walk into this strange shop filled with all kinds of items. They find something they want but theres no price tag. When they ask the shopkeeper what he wants for it, he hands them a black coin and tells them to bring it back when it turns gold. Well when will it turn gold? When you have completed a task worthy of the item you desire.

The players leave in search of a task to complete worthy of the item (in this case it was a set of barding for one of their pets). They walk around town and enter town square.

DM: You enter town square and look around. There are some people milling around, a few coming and going from the inn. A few kids play around the fountain, and a stray cat sits on the steps of the church.

I suppose the players thought, a church, that’s a place I can find good deeds to do, or something like that and bypassed the cat, which was one of the deeds that could get them an item.

And i wrote ~--Stray Cat--~ to show I put emphasis on the word. It really wasn't just some random cat, they did have a reason. I didn't write all that in there because I was trying to be brief. If i wrote everything I had to say, it would have been 2 or 3 pages, and no one wants to read all that ^^

Also, the ring...

I would ask for a description in case it was important. I've played with several DM's who intentionally keep information from you or they will be very detailed oriented. If no one says "I shut the door." the doors open. There was a room we were in were that actually was the puzzle, where you had to shut the door because behind the door when it was "open" was actually another hall.

So I would ask for a description of the ring. If the DM says, "Its just a normal wedding ring," I'm content. But what if it has the seal of the king on it? Or what it it has arcane markings? Maybe yes, maybe no. Might as well check.

 

[S'mon]

Ok maybe I should explain the whole stray cat thing. This campaign was called “The Good Merchant.” The players walk into this strange shop filled with all kinds of items. They find something they want but theres no price tag. When they ask the shopkeeper what he wants for it, he hands them a black coin and tells them to bring it back when it turns gold. Well when will it turn gold? When you have completed a task worthy of the item you desire.

The players leave in search of a task to complete worthy of the item (in this case it was a set of barding for one of their pets). They walk around town and enter town square.

DM: You enter town square and look around. There are some people milling around, a few coming and going from the inn. A few kids play around the fountain, and a stray cat sits on the steps of the church.

I suppose the players thought, a church, that’s a place I can find good deeds to do, or something like that and bypassed the cat, which was one of the deeds that could get them an item.

And i wrote ~--Stray Cat--~ to show I put emphasis on the word. It really wasn't just some random cat, they did have a reason. I didn't write all that in there because I was trying to be brief. If i wrote everything I had to say, it would have been 2 or 3 pages, and no one wants to read all that ^^

Also, the ring...

Re the ring - I agree that if you have a pixel-bitching DM, it makes sense to demand a description.

The cat thing though, I'm not seeing it at all. I know as player I wouldn't even make a link between "black coin will turn gold" and "good deeds", never mind with "must pay attention to stray cat".

 

[Chrono22]

In one of Paizo's last dragon articles, a writer explained how to effectively use emphasis. It's a handy tool.

Putting funny text around the word cat isn't how you emphasize it... you need to surround it instead with detail.

"The cat stares at you for several minutes unflinchingly. Its strange blue-and-yellow orbs almost seem to smolder with a silent anger. A mouse passes by the glaring feline, practically underneath its feet, but the cat ignores it entirely."

Alternatively, if you want to bury information, you also need to surround it with detail. Players have a habit of leaping to conclusions by trying to separate "important" information from extraneous detail. Putting a strange looking carpet, chandelier, and other features into a room makes it that much harder for them to detect a trap.

 

[Merkuri]

Regarding the cat and descriptions... A good way to highlight key NPCs or pieces of scenery is to use a colorful or unusual word to describe it. The description doesn't need to even be very long or flowery, it has to be unique. A few years ago I had a DM describe a woman as "swarthy". All of the players' ears perked up at this. Even if you have a large vocabulary, "swarthy" isn't a word you hear often. The NPC was a recurring character, and even though the players didn't learn her name for a while, we all immediately recognized the swarthy woman whenever she appeared.

Avoid "Where's Waldo" descriptions. Don't make your players sift through your descriptions with a magnifying lens for the relevant pieces. Make sure they stand out, even if you feel like you're using a cluebat. Something that sounds obvious to you may not be obvious to your players. And if you would prefer to be subtle, be ready with a plan B if the players don't pick up on it.


Back to the OP... playing a D&D game is a two-way street. It's a dance. It's not all the DM's responsibility, and it's not all the players' responsibility either.

A good D&D session is like an improv routine. Each person (player or DM) needs to take what the other people are offering and build on it, run with it. You can't just sit back and let the other person do all the work.

If a DM just sits my PC down in a bar and says, "Go!" I will probably have some trouble thinking up something to do. I need direction of some sort, even if it's in the form of a colorful world.

Of course, I often find myself in the "leader" role in my group, whether I want to or not. A few years ago we were playing through the World's Largest Dungeon (3.5e). I started the game with a Favored Soul with a very strong personality, and she quickly became the character who made all the decisions for the group (or at least, she had the final say). After 52 sessions (a record for us in that campaign) she finally bit the dust and I replaced her with a kobold bard with a very different personality. I wanted to play her as more of a "whatever you say, boss!" type of character, but the group just didn't let me. Everyone else was so used to my PC taking the reigns, and nobody stepped up to fill that role after the favored soul was gone. It took us forever to make decisions about what to do next util I picked up the reigns again and the party ended up being led around the dungeon by this little wimpy kobold.

But who am I to say that somebody else is playing wrong? If my fellow players are looking for a mindless kill-fest where they sit back and let the plot happen to them, then good for them. But for good improv and for good gaming, IMO, you need to have at least one player willing to make decisions and grab those hooks.

 

[Dausuul]

And if you would prefer to be subtle, be ready with a plan B if the players don't pick up on it.

This.

You just cannot count on players to pick up on--or to miss--clues. You'll put a clue into the adventure that feels like you're whacking them in the face with the answer, and they'll walk right by it and spend hours banging their heads against a wall. Then they will proceed to correctly divine the solution to the central mystery of the campaign based on a single footprint in the first adventure.

Always be ready with a way to keep things moving when the players roll a natural 1 on their Perception checks.

 

[Nameless1]

I actually like how the Gumshoe system works in this regard. Just tell the players what the clues are, don't make them search for them or roll to see if they find them.

"These are the facts, maam."

Never trust a player to pick up a clue. Throw it in their face.

 

[Clarabell]

But then it just seems to be to be kind of pointless. If you have to lead them around everywhere and point out every single bit of information, then for me the fun is completely gone. If I wanted that i would work on my book. There I'm in control of pretty much everything that goes on. Half the point of playing D&D is seeing what the players will do, seeing how they will figure things how, what kind of unexpected things they do. Over the years I learned one very important thing: omit needless words. If it doesn't need to be said, don't say it. When you describe a room to your players, you do so telling them what they see. You don't say, "and behind the barrel is a key." While that's important, they don't see it.

Now let me add more to this story so you can see how really obvious this cat is throughout everything...

Campaign Title: The Good Merchant
The Good Merchant gives them a coin saying it will turn gold when they have done a deed worthy of the item they want. Good Merchant: Implies it must be a good deed.
They go and see a cat. Oh hey, stray cat. I didn't just say there's a cat on the steps. Its a stray cat, and obviously so. Good deed to be done? Give it a home or find whom it belongs to.

They didn't get this the first time. Ok fine, that's ok. Cat's still there when they come out and I point it out again. Nothing. Then a serries of very unfortunate events occours.

1. One of the players decides to hunt a deer, cook and cure it, and donate it to the church as food. As a joke they find the cat and put it inside the bundle. They finally noticed the cat, but did not get the hint.

2. Same cat shows up again. Its been brought up four times. No one takes the now obvious hint. They ignore it.

3. One player is frustrated and doesn't know what to do so, upon seeing the cat, they take it and throw it as hard as they can. I decide to play god at this point, realizing they are never going to get it. At this point I've also given them about five other deeds they could have done, all of them ignored. So I say the cat lands in a young tree, which bends to the ground and the cat gently slides off into some girls lap. She is overjoyed at her newfound pet and rushes inside to take care of it, saying "MOMMY! MOMMY! LOOK WHAT FELL OUT OF THE SKY!"

DING! coin turns gold. Not the way it was suppose to work, but oh well. For my own entertainment and to try and make the game actually move forward, I cursed the player, making it so any evil they did turned out to be good somehow. The session quickly degrades into absolute idiocy as he tries again and again to do evil and i keep coming up with ways to make it good.

And as a side note, no one else in the game turned their coins to gold. At that point, I realized that unless I made things that were so blatantly obvious that no one on earth could miss them, the game was going to go nowhere. Thats the last time I DMed, and will probably be the absolute last. What exactly is the point of doing everything for the players besides rolling their dice for them?

EDIT: A really good example of fail players: http://shamusyoung.mu.nu/images/comic_lotr15.jpg

 

[Nameless1]

A stray cat, even a recurrent stray cat, would not catch my interest. I hate cats. I have never made a character with any interest in cats. I like to play heroes, and if I was told that I had to perform a good deed that was worthy of what I saught, I would not go into the Humane Society business. Just not my first choice. Or second. I just would not think of it. Ever. Unless told. Directly. And then I might not believe it. Are you sure that was what they were supposed to do? Really? Just saying, I would have missed it. Did any character ever express an interest in cats? How about a character concept that at least really suggested that cats would interest them?