D&D 5E Players Killing Players for stupid reason

[iserith]

I agree that the rogue's player is acting like a jerk. That might not be their intent, but it is the result. @RickTheFox should, IMO, express their frustration as a player with their group. If the other players don't care, think it's funny, or refuse to change . . . finding a new group is always an option.

But, the rogue's player isn't the one who is asking us for advice on the situation, that's why the advice is focused on @RickTheFox's wizard character. One player being a jerk isn't going to be solved by another player responding like a jerk. It will just spread the misery and further break down the group.

Notably, RickTheFox said that the rogue's plan was "hilarious" in the original post. That doesn't strike me as viewing the rogue player's plan as jerkish behavior.

Further, I personally find the "it's what my character would do" argument to be an admission of a failure of imagination in a game based on make-believe. Which is, to me, "hilarious."

 

[Dire Bare]

Yes, I came here because I believe I could only kill her. That is why I came. To find another solution. That is not a corner, that is a starting point.

The wizard is wise, he already has the poison. He can cast prestidigitation to mask the taste. The body will not be found, and if so, then murder will not be suspected. Persuasion - drink this and go for a swim in the sea. The wizard has... had - because of the rogue, past time - ... great political standing so he would be judged by his friends who respect ... respected... him. (See what this cost me?)

Bradley Hindman thank you very much for this. You get it exactly. And this is the case. Still though, I would prefer another way...

Dire Bear sorry if you think I am being hostile, I try not to be. That ph0rk guy said some untrue things as his premise to giving advice, things I have explained in previous posts. That is why I told him off.

• thwarting that plan is not an option, already underway. Also, the attempt itself is betrayal. Rest is damage control.
• rogue is a nobody with no reputation, just a promiscuos thug with no standing. No reputation for me to target
• that is what I am trying to avoid, to lose a player or to lose a PC, I do not want to break the party (as a person I would rather leave myself than be the cause of another being booted out. I also like the player, just not that one action her PC made)
• change of heart would not be reasonable at all. Honestly, I kinda like my wizard the way he is. I would rather see him dead than... not being him... the only reasonable change of heart would be for him to commit suicide.
• a new villain for DM is my current to go strategy

Yes, I came here because I believe I could only kill her. That is why I came. To find another solution. That is not a corner, that is a starting point.

The wizard is wise, he already has the poison. He can cast prestidigitation to mask the taste. The body will not be found, and if so, then murder will not be suspected. Persuasion - drink this and go for a swim in the sea. The wizard has... had - because of the rogue, past time - ... great political standing so he would be judged by his friends who respect ... respected... him. (See what this cost me?)

Bradley Hindman thank you very much for this. You get it exactly. And this is the case. Still though, I would prefer another way...

Dire Bear sorry if you think I am being hostile, I try not to be. That ph0rk guy said some untrue things as his premise to giving advice, things I have explained in previous posts. That is why I told him off.

• thwarting that plan is not an option, already underway. Also, the attempt itself is betrayal. Rest is damage control.
• rogue is a nobody with no reputation, just a promiscuos thug with no standing. No reputation for me to target
• that is what I am trying to avoid, to lose a player or to lose a PC, I do not want to break the party (as a person I would rather leave myself than be the cause of another being booted out. I also like the player, just not that one action her PC made)
• change of heart would not be reasonable at all. Honestly, I kinda like my wizard the way he is. I would rather see him dead than... not being him... the only reasonable change of heart would be for him to commit suicide.
• a new villain for DM is my current to go strategy

I'm not sure what else to tell you. Folks keep giving you lots of good advice, and you keep falling back on the idea that you have no reasonable choice but to have your wizard murder the rogue. Well, okay then, go for it. I don't expect it will work out well for your gaming group.

Here's some more ideas, but ultimately, it's up to YOU to be creative and find a fun way to resolve the situation that doesn't result in strife within your gaming group.

• Assume the rogue is successful in humiliating and ruining your wizard. Instead of leaning into violent vengeance, lean into the vengeance of success. Rebuild your reputation despite the rogue's setback. That's a great way to win in real life, it can work in the fantasy world also.
• The rogue doesn't have a reputation to lose . . . . what does the character care about? They are a rogue, are they a thief or some other sort of criminal? Can you turn them into the authorities, resulting in imprisonment or execution? If you need to be a little evil, can you frame the rogue for a crime they didn't commit?

 

[Bradley Hindman]

But, the rogue's player isn't the one who is asking us for advice on the situation, that's why the advice is focused on @RickTheFox's wizard character. One player being a jerk isn't going to be solved by another player responding like a jerk. It will just spread the misery and further break down the group.

Very good advice. This sounds like a out of game problem. As others in this thread have advocated, you should solve an out of game problem out of game. RickTheFox should talk to the other player (again). They may not realize that they are kicking over the sand castle that he has been methodically building.

 

[ph0rk]

The wizard is wise, he already has the poison. He can cast prestidigitation to mask the taste. The body will not be found, and if so, then murder will not be suspected.

Lots of people think they can get away with murder. In a universe with Divination, Speak with Dead, and Zone of Truth (things people that hobnob with nobility can pay for) on the table, you might not get away with what you think you will.

You are the one that said you can't think of other options and nor can your character. What your character can think of is entirely up to you.

If you aren't willing to metagame for party cohesion, you'll have this problem again and again. You aren't writing a novel, you're playing a game.

 

[Maxperson]

Lots of people think they can get away with murder. In a universe with Divination, Speak with Dead, and Zone of Truth (things people that hobnob with nobility can pay for) on the table, you might not get away with what you think you will.

Commune. Contact other plane. And more. There's a reason that DMs are frustrated by how hard it it to run a mystery game.

 

[ph0rk]

Commune. Contact other plane. And more. There's a reason that DMs are frustrated by how hard it it to run a mystery game.

Indeed - the list is very long. This isn't the system for that sort of thing.

 

[Rikka66]

So maybe I missed it somewhere, but it seems like you've completely skipped over anyways of preventing the rogue from going through with their plans. Did you try asking the rest of the party to help you restrain them? You sound fairly well-to-do, hire some heavies to capture them before they reach the ball? Your character sounds like they've built some reputation, there's no one that could be warned your wizard has fallen under a spell who wouldn't help stop them from going to the ball out concern?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Or prove that you were body shuffled.

Or stop the shuffling back, your your awesome rogue body to rob old you blind and live like a queen.

Or use the shuffle to lure out all the enemies your apparent pyscho killer noble almost certainly has.

 

[RickTheFox]

Rikka66 - too late for that, I can not stop anyone. Also, the whole group is shuffled and suffers from heavy confusion. The wizard being of high standing is exactly the problem, as I doubt common guards would dare stop him. Also, there is no time - the rogue simply went away while my wizard stayed to "control" another party member that used some drugs in body of my wizard´s wife and wants to go to the ball naked under the influence of drugs... I only have one concentration (Persuassion).

Vaalingrade - proving it is not that hard, problem is the attempt has been made and succeeded. Now it is just damage control. I do not see a way for the wizard to work together in the party with the rogue, even if there was no vengeance. Letting them kill my body is not something I would like to do, it is actually another thing to watch out for and protect her while she is in my body. What a nightmare.

ph0rk / Maxperson - I tried talking her out of it. Both player-player AND PC-PC. She does not care. I will have to cover my steps more carefully if I decide to kill her, I have an idea or two how.

Bradley Hindman - there is no out-of-game problem between us, that is just what she wants to do in-game. No out-of-game or meta reason. Just wants to do it. Love that sand castle approximation by the way.

Dire Bare - having her executed by law or by poison makes no difference to my PC, nor to the IRL implications. The game would still go on with her PC gone. Also, if I were to rebuild that (and I am not sure I could, such a thing would hardly be forgotten), my wizard would hardly just merrily go on questing with the rogue. No way of that happening.

******

Anyway, thank you all for your advice. Some of it was extremely helpful.

Conclusion - I explained here what happened and that I see it like I was cornered and have no choice, but most of you do not see it that way. So I have to very reluctantly assume the rest of the party would probably not see it my way either.

I have decided that I will not PC kill, because even though I can stay detached from the game and what happens there, I very much doubt she and some others in the party can do the same.

I will offer my wizard to the DM with the story that he swore revenge and left the party. There is no way they would work together after that, and this way I can avoid PC kill. The wizard will, I think, become the worst villain of the game. I can live (happily) knowing that. And I will roll a new character, probably a simple barbarian without a care in the world... or just find another party, a party with more decent players, where I would never have to solve such problems and react to such situations.

It is a shame, though. It was my first ever character. And I really liked him. Really.

 

[iserith]

It is a shame, though. It was my first ever character. And I really liked him. Really.

I find it's best not to get attached to characters. Drive them like a stolen car and have fun (and make the game fun for others) while they last, but have no expectation that they'll be around forever as you imagined them. They'll die, change, go mad, be turned to stone forever, retire, or the adventure or campaign may end before you ever get to see much development.

So best to play as if there is no tomorrow and roll with it because, if you've played long enough, you'll know that frequently there actually is no tomorrow and it's not worth pinning one's fun on an expectation that will be subverted as often as it may be in D&D.