D&D 5E Players Killing Players for stupid reason

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I kinda disagree, in that having a character do what it would do regardless of meta-consequences to me says the player's imagination and-or inhabitation of that character is working very well indeed.
But see, there is no "would." There's only "could" or "might" or "may." There's a nearly limitless amount of choices to make here that won't result in other people having their fun spoiled and someone can't come up with even one such choice? C'mon. That's a failure of imagination in a game based on make-believe. Either that or it's willfully ignoring any other suggestion simply because you're set on one response - kill - and seeking validation.

Kudos at least for the poster not going that route in the end.
 

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ph0rk

Friendship is Magic, and Magic is Heresy.
Here, the wizard's player seems to really not know whether killing the rogue is the best choice
I don't think that is the case anymore - more and more it feels like the player is looking for arguments that agree with the murder-the-rogue position.


And why murder is the best option, well because of the background and character of the wizard and magnitude of the transgression of the offender. And because the offender has nothing else of sufficient value I could target. Again, if I failed to explain it in so many detailed and long posts, I doubt I can re-explain it here.

See?

A character that gets all stabby (or in this case, poisony) after a practical joke isn't a plays-in-a-group character. Making a character that doesn't play well in a group is about as close as you can get to playing D&D wrong - unless it's a murder everyone PvP table, but it isn't one of those.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Ph0rk / Maxperson - I tried talking her out of it. Both player-player AND PC-PC. She does not care. I will have to cover my steps more carefully if I decide to kill her, I have an idea or two how.
I'm just confused on why it has to be murder when there are many other ways to get 10x revenge without resorting to that extreme. Anyway, it seems like you're set on giving up the character and going for the ultimate in revenge. Just remember, without DM fiat, it's pretty much impossible to cover your steps in the face of all the magic and such that exists to ferret you out.
 

RickTheFox

Villager
If you feel your fellow player’s behavior is disruptive to the game, the appropriate response is to talk to the other player, like mature adults, not to kill their character.
Great idea! I cant believe I did not think of doing that! Ah wait...
Someone double-dog dared me to ask - what other reasons?
First character. Longest played character. Most detailed and for the game most consequential background I have ever had. Because it was really fun seeing how DM sometimes intentionally put a NPC there that was rude to the wizard or crossed him in some way, and seeing how my vengeful noble wizard would get back at them...

It was really something, playing a character with this kind of fault, who can not just let things go, but at the same time wanted to be sneaky about it. It had hilarious results... prestidigitation to soil their pants without them knowing, getting them thrown out of tavern because I made their drink taste like water (and back when innkeeper checked) and they started arguing with the innkeeper..., causing them to fight each other because I lied that the other guy pissed into his mug when he was away (and prestidigitation to made it smell so), a bribe to a guard to lock them up for a night, a persuasion spell that eating horse dung while dancing in the fountain naked would make them immortal... it was always fun in this manner. True, sometimes it got dark, like when a tribe of some humanoid cannibals attacked my wizard and my in-game wife. It was attack on the wizards family, so the wizard burned down theirs. Still though, that is what the rest of the party wanted to do anyway as they had been attacking caravans and needed to be destroyed...

For me, it was the most endearing character because I really liked playing like a noble who only had his certificate of pedigree and nothing else at first and slowly started to build a strong business and influence in a big town, finally seeing some interesting results, getting somewhere.

So yeah, I very much liked that wizard... damn now I remembered all that I feel sad...
I kinda disagree, in that having a character do what it would do regardless of meta-consequences to me says the player's imagination and-or inhabitation of that character is working very well indeed.
Yeah, I feel the same way about RPG. Characters should be consistent with what they do. Steered in a direction, but consistent and true to their nature. It is up to party and DM on session 0 to determine whether such a character should be there or not.

Then keep playing him!

Pull him from the party, sure - but he's still your character; don't sign him over to the DM. Then, in a few months you and the DM can spend a night in the pub where you-as-player plot out the long-term revenge the wizard takes on the rogue, and-or catch him up otherwise.

Never mind that for all you know that rogue's going to die at the next opportunity, in the usual way adventurers sometimes do, thus paving the way for your wizard to come rolling back in.
For some reason, that would not be the same. I want the wizard to stay in that particular world and that particular story. Rather like a villain NPC. Also, I doubt the rogue will die. Our DM is a very good and gentle guy, he is trying hard not to kill PCs. We have actually not have anyone die yet, and I think DM likes it that way. I know I do... Good idea, though.


I'd wager there's a social situation playing out at this table and social cues have not been picked up on in the previous 9 months by the wizard's player, so the rogue's player thought this would be the next step in communicating some kind of discontent about how the wizard player behaves. It's not a good move on his or her part, but again, something about the details here point in this direction to me.

You would lose that wager. I keep telling you guys, I asked. I asked her, I asked DM, I asked the other guys. No problem whatsoever. Not even hints of it.


A character that gets all stabby (or in this case, poisony) after a practical joke isn't a plays-in-a-group character. Making a character that doesn't play well in a group is about as close as you can get to playing D&D wrong - unless it's a murder everyone PvP table, but it isn't one of those.

You are out of line. The wizard plays well with everyone, unless they provoke him in extreme way. It was not a practical joke any more than your collegue accusing you of rape and pressing charges would be. Hilarious for you, right?

I'm just confused on why it has to be murder when there are many other ways to get 10x revenge without resorting to that extreme. Anyway, it seems like you're set on giving up the character and going for the ultimate in revenge. Just remember, without DM fiat, it's pretty much impossible to cover your steps in the face of all the magic and such that exists to ferret you out.
No, there is literally nothing I can target apart from limbs and life of the rogue. Nothing adequate comes to my mind. I am willing to give up a character I hold dear so the character continues in the way he is meant to be, and without me breaking up the party by PC kill. If I wanted to think of a perfect crime in game, I would manage to pull it off I believe. And for some reason, I doubt DM would be too keen to reveal the crime. Think of why is that for yourself.
 
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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The wizard doesn't have to do anything. In fact, I'd lay money on Doing Nothing or at least Being A Good Sport About It completely neutralizing the desire to do such things again. This situation reads to me like trying to get a rise out of the player of the wizard.
Or establish social pecking order at the table, to which some sort of reponse is IMO essential unless you're willing to allow the rogue's player to boss you henceforth.
Play into that and the endless cycle of retaliation may begin because now the rogue's player knows what to do to annoy you.
And thus a grand rivalry begins, lasting as long as those characters run together. Sub-plots like these IMO add to the fun rather than subtract from it.
I'd wager there's a social situation playing out at this table and social cues have not been picked up on in the previous 9 months by the wizard's player, so the rogue's player thought this would be the next step in communicating some kind of discontent about how the wizard player behaves. It's not a good move on his or her part, but again, something about the details here point in this direction to me.
Or, again, it's a pecking-order thing; something which nearly everyone does but IME absolutely nobody ever admits to doing even when pressed.
The smart play is to just have a discussion outside the context of the game in my view as has been echoed by others.
And if that discussion ends with "It's on, no holds barred", then what?
 


RickTheFox

Villager
Well, I did warn the player (both player to player and PC to PC) that there will be retribution and it will not have a happy ending. I was not totally open with the player as I do not want her to have meta-game advantage. (I did not tell her I intend to bribe thugs to kill her. She thinks I will probably duel her, which she would win. My wizard is a comfortable noble with utility spells, not a fighter... although persuassion -> drink this tasty potion and go for a swim in the sea would probably work).

I talked about this with our DM totally openly and we both agreed that we should try to come up with other solutions, but if we can not find other resolutions then the PC vs PC will be likely the only reasonable outcome.
Player to Player I also told her that I spent a lot of time building that reputation and I care about it. I reminded her of the traits of the wizard - noble at first sight, polite, patient, VENGEFUL. (literally have it written like that) The response was she wants to do it anyway, because it sounds like fun and would stirr things up.

Well, she certainly got the last part right.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
You would lose that wager. I keep telling you guys, I asked. I asked her, I asked DM, I asked the other guys. No problem whatsoever. Not even hints of it.
No offense, but we only have your word to go on. I want to believe you, but there has been some inconsistency as to your posts that I can't ignore. Maybe you're right and there is no actual problem. But then this only further underscores the need to take it in stride and not create a problem where there isn't one.

Even so, the fact that you're choosing to retire your character over something rather silly instead of doing any number of other things that would see you keep your beloved character gives me the impression you're trying to be the martyr here.

You are out of line. The wizard plays well with everyone, unless they provoke him in extreme way. It was not a practical joke any more than your collegue accusing you of rape and pressing charges would be. Hilarious for you, right?


No, there is literally nothing I can target apart from limbs and life of the rogue. Nothing adequate comes to my mind. I am willing to give up a character I hold dear so the character continues in the way he is meant to be, and without me breaking up the party by PC kill. If I wanted to think of a perfect crime in game, I would manage to pull it off I believe. And for some reason, I doubt DM would be too keen to reveal the crime. Think of why is that for yourself.
This looks like you're attributing it to me based on the formatting, but the posts to which you are responding belong to someone else.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Or establish social pecking order at the table, to which some sort of reponse is IMO essential unless you're willing to allow the rogue's player to boss you henceforth.

And thus a grand rivalry begins, lasting as long as those characters run together. Sub-plots like these IMO add to the fun rather than subtract from it.

Or, again, it's a pecking-order thing; something which nearly everyone does but IME absolutely nobody ever admits to doing even when pressed.

And if that discussion ends with "It's on, no holds barred", then what?
If players agree that this sort of play is fun to everyone at the table, then game on. It doesn't seem like everyone agrees with that though. If I recall correctly, the DM isn't onboard with PCs killing other PCs.
 

ph0rk

Friendship is Magic, and Magic is Heresy.
Player to Player I also told her that I spent a lot of time building that reputation and I care about it. I reminded her of the traits of the wizard - noble at first sight, polite, patient, VENGEFUL.


"Don't do this because my Wizard is vengeful" might as well be begging for her to go through with it.


You are out of line. The wizard plays well with everyone, unless they provoke him in extreme way. It was not a practical joke any more than your collegue accusing you of rape and pressing charges would be. Hilarious for you, right?

I don't think plays well with others means what you think it means.
 

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