Players Whining that they Should be able to Buy Magic Items

[Storm Raven]

Storm Raven, all of your above statements are true if your merchant is a person who thinks like a modern capitalist, living alongside other individuals who share his beliefs and assumptions in a world governed by the laws of supply and demand. Fortunately, this type of world is not the only type of world in which all (or hopefully even most) D&D adventures take place.

You mean humans are radically different from the humans who populate our world? Because "capitalism" isn't an economic model that's new, and supply and demand isn't an assumption. If there is a demand for a good, and a supply for it, a market will ensure. Go back through history and try to find a culture in which this was not true.

(Besides, how would the item creation rules even work in a world governed by the laws of supply and demand and therefore subject to inflation?)

Because as the price of magic items rose with inflation, other suppliers would step in and try to take advantage of the rising price, driving prices back down by increasing the volume of supply available to the market. This is basic economic market analysis.

And seriously, are you arguing that because there is a substantial black market in children Central Asia that I, sitting here in Central Canada, can go out and purchase a child today?

Sure. Apply sufficient cash and you could get one, sufficient cash in this case being less than it would cost you to buy a new family size sedan.

 

[Sammael]

That does not exist in a fantasy world with a medieval tech level.

Ever heard of Aurora's Emporium?

 

[Belen]

Anything that a person wants can be replaced by sufficient qualtities of "mere money".

Now you're just operating in a world of illusion. Not all things are tied to money.

Of course, you're assuming that the PCs can find that much in hard currency. Half the wealth the players in my group carry is art, fine rugs etc. Gems and gold are fine and dandy, but places will not be able to do anything with large amounts of currency unless they start charging 10 gp per glass of ale.

 

[Storm Raven]

There is a big difference between art and items that are meant to be useful. The simple truth is that people will hold onto a valuable, useful item unless they have a large number of them.

Unless someone offers them a lot of money for that item. That is known in economics as your "reserve price". The fact that you have a reserve price doesn't mean that there is no sale in the item. People sell the only example of a useful item they have all the time. How do you think, for example, Microsoft acquired Q-DOS? They purchased it (the only operating system intellectual property owned by the seller) for cash.

And Sotheby's and Christie's exist because a communication network exists that allows them to get the items and make it known that they have them.

Really? So that's why Sotheby's has been in existence since 1744? And Christie's since 1766? What communications network existed then? Have you never heard of the di Medici family? Or the Fuggers? Or other large organizations that acted as banks, clearing houses, and trading points?

That does not exist in a fantasy world with a medieval tech level.

Except that your history seems to be somewhat lacking. Large clearing houses are not new, nor do they rely upon strong communications networks. In point of fact, they prospecr in environments in which communications are difficult, because they act as a information transfer. Their existence is geared towards providing information of the existence of willing sellers to interested buyers. A greater flow of information is bad for a clearing house like Sotheby's

You cannot equate a modern economy with one where the vast majority of the wealthy nations are also on a subsistance level.

You have yet to demonstrate that supply and demand don't apply, even where people are in general poorer than you think they would be willing to make trades.

 

[Belen]

Because as the price of magic items rose with inflation, other suppliers would step in and try to take advantage of the rising price, driving prices back down by increasing the volume of supply available to the market. This is basic economic market analysis.

Riiiiight....because thousands of high level mages and clerics are running around with the time and inclination to make magic items because it makes good business sense.

Glad to know that medieval markets recognized the need for more magic items and thus made sure to tell the youth to major in magic with a concentration in item creation so that they can make big bucks.

 

[Storm Raven]

You're quite something.[/quoter]

And you are ridiculously naive.

In an age of Amber Alerts, round-the-clock news networks, rapid communication, e-mails, sensitivity to missing children, and where American license plates and funny accents stick out like sore thumbs (especially in a country used to noticing their presence simply because y'all are so different from the norm) there's nothing easy about the market for smuggling children. (Which is how you described it.)

And all of those things assume that the child (a) native to the area, (b) is missed by someone, and (c) reported. All of those things are easy to circumvent, especially if you are importing children from somewhere else. You can imagine that it is difficult to smuggle children, but that's just a comforting illusion you tell yourself to escape the reality of the ease which it can be accomplished.

It acquiring a child from such actions easier than buying nicked video or hard drugs from the guy across town? Most. Frigging. Assuredly. Not.

A nicked video? Probably not. Drugs? What quantity are you buying?

 

[Belen]

Really? So that's why Sotheby's has been in existence since 1744? And Christie's since 1766? What communications network existed then? Have you never heard of the di Medici family? Or the Fuggers? Or other large organizations that acted as banks, clearing houses, and trading points?

Oh yes....please keep giving examples of organizations that are post printing press.

 

[Storm Raven]

By having an adequately described combination of demographics, economics, and culture.

Explain the demographics, economics, and culture that override basic human nature.

 

[Arnwyn]

Explain the demographics, economics, and culture that override basic human nature.

Explain "basic human nature", referencing all human cultures on Earth over time and a number of fantasy worlds (your choice).

 

[Storm Raven]

Really? How easy do you suppose it would have been to purchase a noble title in Charlemagne's world?

In Charlemange's world? Pretty damn easy if historical evidence is to be believed. You didn't even have to purchase it in many cases, just assert your authority and back it up with sufficient violence and it would be recognized.

Or in a Norse kingdom? Especially in the Norse world, where coins were pounded into ornaments because there was so much gold and nothing to spend it on. If someone showed up in 9th century Denmark with a bunch of gold and tried to buy a title with it, here's what might have happened: he would have been beaten or executed for insulting the local king by trying to bribe him; then his money would have been taken and turned into jewelry to commemorate the occasion of his execution.

Norse titles? Those were a joke. Norse kings hired themselves out as mercenaries on a regular basis. Most were answerable to things, and jarls who, in most cases, simply asserted their right to be a jarl as a result of their force of arms, something easy enough for most D&D adventurers to do. Buy a farm, become a jarl. Now you are titled. (Or, as more frequently happened, challenge a jarl to a duel, defeat him and take his property, and you are titled; and in many cases, hire someone to challenge a jarl of your behalf, have him defeated on your behalf, and take his title).

From about the 16th century forward in England, people could purchase minor titles for cash but the whole reason feudalism arose was because the power of the sword trumped both money and civil authority.

From far earlier than that titles were for sale on a regular basis as a method for members of royalty and the senior aristocracy to acquire cash to fund their operations. To such an extent that you periodically had laws enacted in an effort to limit the market (almost all of which immediately failed in the face of the economic reality that cash must come from somewhere).

So, no. For most of history one could not purchase an aristocratic title at all. Look at India today, for goodness sake. Tell me: can people purchase membership in the brahmin or ksatriyah castes? There are billionaires in India who are still untouchables; why? Because caste, like feudal titles for most of history, cannot be bought.

For most feudal history in Europe, titles were for sale on a regular basis. You can romanticize the period if you want, but the reality is that titles were tossed around in exchange for cash constantly. Ultimately, anything of value can be expressed in cash terms.