Players Whining that they Should be able to Buy Magic Items

[haakon1]

By the way, the heist scenario happened in two separate campaigns with different players. Given the habits of adventurers, it's pretty easy for them to conclude, it's a low-med risk for high reward.

Not an issue in my campaign so far, since I've mostly had good parties, and the one magic shop is a town ruled by LG folks.

So what would happen if an evil or neutral party tried to steal from my 2nd-4th level sorcerer with his potions and +1-+2 type items? They'd achieve the robbery, but I'd feel the need as a DM to change the risk-reward ratio from just bumping off the sorcerer to something much more . . . . appropriate.

This sorcerer has been helping the local rulers with their magic needs in wartime. And helping several adventuring parties . . . and is a member of the magic guild. Perhaps not just a local guild, but one spanning many cities.

So, the magic guild magically detects "whodunnit", and hires a party to go after the party (takes a thief to catch a thief). Plus, the local government gives all aid it can to the magic guild, perhaps arresting the PC's the time they try to enter a walled town. And some of the magic dealer's friends -- perhaps a party 4 levels higher than the PC's -- are unhappy with what happened, especially with that +2 platemail that they owned and were selling on commission going missing.

All told, the PC's are in a world of hurt, in a situation like when "The Blues Brothers" have an angry country band, the Illinois Nazi Party, and several hundred members of "the Illinois law enforcement community" on their tails, with the all points bulletin being: "Unnecessary violence in the apprehension of Jake and Elwood Blues . . . has been approved." Sounds like fun to DM!

DMing PC actions into "game world consequences" is a whole lot more fun and "educational" than saying "you can't do that in my game 'cause I said so".

 

[Staffan]

Greyhawk analogy: Magic shops are a DM option for places like Greyhawk and Rel Astra. Places like Furyondy or Urnst or the Pale are likely too podunk for the really good stuff, but there might be somebody who deals in "local artists". In other words, buying +1 short swords or CLW potions, that's a DM option. Buying +5 holy avengers, again a DM option, but a bit silly without making it hard on the players and making them go to Greyhawk to buy it.

And that's what the gp limits based on city size are for. I'd also note that a holy avenger is too expensive to find even in a place like Greyhawk City. Smaller towns will have progressively lower amounts of magic.

Hmm. It would be interesting to check the gp limits of various categories of communities, and compare them to what sort of items that actually means, as well as the highest-level NPCs in the cities. Let's see:
Metropolis: 100,000 gp, level 13-18. The money includes up to +7-equivalent weapons (as well as rings of protection and amulets of natural armor), +9-equivalent armors (and cloaks of resistance), +6 stat items, +3 tomes, elemental-summoning items, and rings of spell turning.
Large city: 40,000 gp, level 10-15. +4-equivalent weapons, +6-equivalent armors. +6 stat items, +1 tomes,
Small city: 15,000 gp, level 7-12. +2-equivalent weapons, +3 equivalent armors. +2 stat items (almost +4), ring of minor energy resistance, rod of wonder, no staves, 3rd-level wands, monk's belt, Boccob's blessed book, periapt of wound closure.
Large town: 3,000 gp, level 4-9. +1 weapons or armors, 1st-level wands, +5 skill enhancers, rust bag of tricks, lesser metamagic rods of +1-equivalent feats.
Small town: 800 gp, level 1-6. No magic weapons or armors, 1st-level wands, 2nd-level potions.

 

[haakon1]

It's been mentioned up-thread that major auction houses -- and stock exchanges, for that matter -- predate anything resembling modern communications by centuries. Moreover, in a D&D world magical communication and transportation is available.

The first trading of stock was in the 1600s in London and the Netherlands . . . the main cities of their world. And in London, it involved physically going to a particular guild hall or coffee shop to meeting with other traders. My point is -- in London, yes, you can and could even in 1600 buy anything the world has to offer. But in the Outer Hebrides, not so much before telecoms . . . so, I'm suggesting magic shops in the world's main city = yes. Magic shop in the Keep on the Borderlands = maybe, but unlikely to have much good stuff.

As for communications by magic, it's very limited in my game, which I guess is generally a "low magic" world . . . at least, it's a medieval world with magic used only for "magical" reasons, like good old dungeon stomping and wars.

 

[haakon1]

And that's what the gp limits based on city size are for. I'd also note that a holy avenger is too expensive to find even in a place like Greyhawk City. Smaller towns will have progressively lower amounts of magic.

Hmm. It would be interesting to check the gp limits of various categories of communities, and compare them to what sort of items that actually means, as well as the highest-level NPCs in the cities. Let's see:
Metropolis: 100,000 gp, level 13-18. The money includes up to +7-equivalent weapons (as well as rings of protection and amulets of natural armor), +9-equivalent armors (and cloaks of resistance), +6 stat items, +3 tomes, elemental-summoning items, and rings of spell turning.
Large city: 40,000 gp, level 10-15. +4-equivalent weapons, +6-equivalent armors. +6 stat items, +1 tomes,
Small city: 15,000 gp, level 7-12. +2-equivalent weapons, +3 equivalent armors. +2 stat items (almost +4), ring of minor energy resistance, rod of wonder, no staves, 3rd-level wands, monk's belt, Boccob's blessed book, periapt of wound closure.
Large town: 3,000 gp, level 4-9. +1 weapons or armors, 1st-level wands, +5 skill enhancers, rust bag of tricks, lesser metamagic rods of +1-equivalent feats.
Small town: 800 gp, level 1-6. No magic weapons or armors, 1st-level wands, 2nd-level potions.

Excellent. Thanks for cracking open the rule book on this one. Sounds just about right to me.

 

[Vigilance]

Now, try a convincing argument.

You claimed that no interesting stories could come from banning a trade in magic.

I came up with 4 ideas in the span of about 30 seconds.

You of course then piped back in saying that all of them, somehow, revolved around the sale of items.

Maybe you should quit grasping at straws and just admit that not allowing the PCs to buy and sell magic items is just as valid a campaign style as the other way.

The thing that I find annoying about this argument, is that I have no problem with campaigns that allow the buying and selling of magic items, I just prefer another style.

What I am continually confronted with are people telling me:

1) No, really I'm buying and selling magic items.

2) I'm not playing "legitimate" D&D.

3) I'm a power hungry control freak because I wouldnt tolerate whining over the topic.

I have no problem with your asserting that allowing magic item sales works FOR YOU and generates plot lines FOR YOU.

Why do you insist on telling me banning the sale of magic items doesn't work FOR ME.

Or even sillier... that I am in face buying magic items.

Chuck

PS Elrond makes the sword for Aragorn when he has decided to take up his father's mantle and lead his people against the BBEG.

In other words, he had to PROVE HIMSELF to Elrond, which is all I stated about the quest in my post above. That the PCs were PROVING THEMSELVES worthy of being allowed a grant of items from the temple.

 

[Piratecat]

. . .Are you thick?

. . .Get it? You TRADE your services for a magical item.

. . .Now, try a convincing argument.

Apparently, multiple warnings about tone and not being rude didn't get the idea across. Thread closed.

This thread is a good example of how the initial post and the title have a huge affect on the content and tone of posts. By calling it "whining," I think people started off a lot more defensive and confrontative than they would have been otherwise. There's probably a lesson in that somewhere.

All together, everyone,

Klunk.