Playing a bard

[Haffrung Helleyes]

He isn't a half caster...his spell progression is better than a ranger or paladin, and more importantly, a lot of key enchantment spells (Tasha's , Confusion, Charm Monster for example) show up a level earlier than a wizard. As well, he has access to a bard only feat, captivating melody, that lets him increase his enchantment DC by two for a use of bardic music (a pittance). So, assuming he takes this feat, he can easily keep up with a wizard on DCs for enchantment spells, taking the other DC increasing feats as well. I don't see why a DC22 confusion spell can't be competitive. A DC22 will save is not going to be trivial to make for most opponents. And that's with just a plus two cloak of charisma.

It's true that you should focus on buffing the party as well, though I would take the party composition into account -- there isn't much point in you taking haste if the sorcerer has it.

I completely agree with mistwell with regard to ranged attacks. You have other options that are more valuable to the party; let the fighter and the rogue and the wizard do the damage.

Ken

I strongly encourage you to check out the Inspire Courage Optimization thread.

I disagree with the spell advice given earlier. You have an incredibly small number of spells available to you. Do not waste spell slots on spells that require saving throws. As a half-level caster, your spell DCs will not be able to keep up with the saving throws of your foes. Charm Person for example is a 1st level spell, and will have no prayer of working at higher levels.

Instead, focus on party-buffing spells (like Haste and the Elation spell from Book of Exalted Deeds), single-buff spells (like Invisibility and Displacement) and utility spells (like Alter Self, and Grease).

I disagree that you should be focusing on a ranged weapon like a crossbow. You are a party leader who buffs the rest of the party, not a striker. Do not waste a single feat on ranged attacks. You will get a great deal more mileage out of feats like Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, Melodic Casting, Lingering Spell, Lyric Spell, and Haunting Melody. Bards do Bardic Music well, so focus on that, not on ranged attacks.

 

[Allegro]

One more thought, speak language is a key skill for a social or enchanting bard. If you can’t speak the language diplomacy, bluff, and charm person/monster become less interesting. It is also useful in subterfuge.

 

[roguerouge]

I completely agree with mistwell with regard to ranged attacks. You have other options that are more valuable to the party; let the fighter and the rogue and the wizard do the damage.

Ken

They don't really have that, though. They have:

"a minotaur barbarian
a monk
an artificer
a cleric/druid
and a thief all of 7th level and above."

With a barbarian as the front line and the monk and rogue as mobile flankers, there really isn't going to be an archer in this party. The artificer's the only arcanist and presumably the CoDzilla will be able to melee as well. They don't need a tricked out melee bard.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

agreed

I would never advocate a melee bard. I think melee is a terrible niche for a bard, they don't have the hit points, armor, or damage dealing capability to pull it off.

I was advocating a battlefield control/party support role. My only quibble with Mistwell was on whether a bard could be competitive in the battlefield control role.

Ken

 

[Zurai]

Anyone who claims melee bards aren't viable has never tried to build one, or is playing straight Core D&D.

 

[Nifft]

Anyone who claims melee bards aren't viable has never tried to build one, or is playing straight Core D&D.

I agree that it's very possible to build a melee bard. However, for this group, it looks like melee is pretty well covered.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Darklone]

And I disagree with everyone who says that ranged attacks aren't a bards niche. I would agree without the Bow of songs... but with Cha to hit and damage and Inspire Courage to hit and damage a bard can easily outmatch most other archer builds (as long as he's not running out of Bardic music uses).

 

[calighis]

See also The Bard's Handbook

Soooo helpful thank you.

 

[Zurai]

However, for this group, it looks like melee is pretty well covered.

Cheers, -- N

Oh, certainly. The only reason I even went into details on it was because the original poster specifically asked for more information. In your quote, I was reacting to the people who say "NEVER build a melee bard, they suck at it" (in a nutshell).

 

[calighis]

I am understanding the Bard's role a little better now.
For this character I am even imagining him taking the vow of non violence (or whatever it's called, I don't have a copy of the BoED handy)
BTW what are the benefits of such a vow?
Would the vow synergize well with words of creation?

I am looking to max out my party buff's first and foremost and focus on utility spells and battlefield control when that is done.
But beyond that can anyone tell me something about the imperious command feat from DotU?

also I need a feat tree to properly build this guy.
I am starting out as human for sure. I want my feats to be built around maxing out bardic music abilities. So level 1-7 what how do I structure this?

I might have to skip on the vow though and take up a bow because it's true that this party can't do much against stuff with wings.