Playing a Wizard - Advice Needed
- Thread starter Herremann the Wise
- Start date
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Because all but the weakest of them require you to give up too much in exchange for too little.nopantsyet said:
The Sudden Metamagic feats in the Miniatures Handbook are how the feats should always have been written, IMO. Unfortunately, since many D&D players don't want to shell out $30 for 70 pages of D&D content, no one will ever see them, unless they import the feats into Complete Arcane or something.
Couple things...
Got agree with most of whats been said regarding choosing spells and thinking things out ahead of time.
The mage in my RttToEE is something along the lines of what you are talking about. She hasn't dropped a fireball or lightning bolt yet. (shes been played for several levels now) She uses things like Tasha's Hideous laughter, Sleep, Color Spray, Deep Slumber, along with some touch spells delivered via SPectral Hand.
IF you don't know RttToEE is a tough adventure that is 90% plus combat (at least the way they are apporaching it) and she is holding her own. I know there have been a few times the party would have really liked a fireball, but they haven't complained much so far.
As for the Metamagic feats. They can be expensive, but are usually worth it. The ones at 1 level, such as extend, Still and others can really mess things up. The other side is take the metamagic feats to be used to create items. IE a silent Wand of charm person, or tasha's hideous laughter. The item is a little more expensive to creat but then you get the 50 uses with out tieing up spell slots.
The last thing is find out what kinda campaign the DM has in mind, and make sure your idea will work with it. for example if its going to be 80-90% dungeon crawl then you plan may not work for this campaign and you may want to save it for later. That way you don't try it and hate it because the adventures don't work with it, and then give up on the idea.
Got agree with most of whats been said regarding choosing spells and thinking things out ahead of time.
The mage in my RttToEE is something along the lines of what you are talking about. She hasn't dropped a fireball or lightning bolt yet. (shes been played for several levels now) She uses things like Tasha's Hideous laughter, Sleep, Color Spray, Deep Slumber, along with some touch spells delivered via SPectral Hand.
IF you don't know RttToEE is a tough adventure that is 90% plus combat (at least the way they are apporaching it) and she is holding her own. I know there have been a few times the party would have really liked a fireball, but they haven't complained much so far.
As for the Metamagic feats. They can be expensive, but are usually worth it. The ones at 1 level, such as extend, Still and others can really mess things up. The other side is take the metamagic feats to be used to create items. IE a silent Wand of charm person, or tasha's hideous laughter. The item is a little more expensive to creat but then you get the 50 uses with out tieing up spell slots.
The last thing is find out what kinda campaign the DM has in mind, and make sure your idea will work with it. for example if its going to be 80-90% dungeon crawl then you plan may not work for this campaign and you may want to save it for later. That way you don't try it and hate it because the adventures don't work with it, and then give up on the idea.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Herremann the Wise said:
My advice:
Conjuration has a lot of great "status effect" spells that ignore SR. Glitterdust and cloudkill are really strong in 3.5, and they target different creature types.
Illusions are weak offensive spells (including the shadow line), and unless your DM is really good at creating the suspension of disbelief, I wouldn't bother with the image spells at all. Phantasmal killer is useful because it can paralyze opponents, and mirror image is just god-like. Displacement is also useful. Transmutation makes a better disguise school, BTW.
Enchantment is ... odd. IMO it's the least balanced school of magic. Where do I start?
Look at confusion. This one is great, and reasonably well-balanced. Note that you can't really control what your opponents do, and sometimes opponents who fail their save are still totally unaffected. OTOH it affects multiple creatures.
Hold monster is another good one, but it does allow a save every round.
Fear is really good ... only it's not Enchantment
Now for the more unusual ones:
Suggestion is too unclear to be useful, and it requires you to speak your opponent's language. This is not good when facing down giants or goblins.
Hold person is your DM's friend, not yours. Same with dominate person.
Dominate monster is great, but you need to be at least 17th-level to pull it off and is easy to block. But if you can establish it, it can be game-breakingly powerful. Just think about dominating a demon who can use fireball at will, giving him an order to "kill kill kill" (that probably wouldn't even allow a save), and think about the ECL of that demon.
Using charm anything in combat is a waste of time, but if you're adept at talking to people without someone trying to kill someone else, then it's really strong (but not as game-breaking as dominate monster). I suggest not bothering with charm person though.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Sorry about the double post, but ENWorld won't let me edit posts.
No they shouldn't. They let you pull off such stuff as Empowered Disintegrate at 11th-level. DnD has a metamagic cap for a reason.
Anyway, I noticed some advice about using deep slumber and such spells. Any spell with a Hit Dice cap shouldn't be used, except for the very low levels. Unless, of course, you can know your opponent's Hit Dice without spending 10 rounds staring at them. (You have no way of knowing if a creature has class levels on top of it.)
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
No they shouldn't. They let you pull off such stuff as Empowered Disintegrate at 11th-level. DnD has a metamagic cap for a reason.
Anyway, I noticed some advice about using deep slumber and such spells. Any spell with a Hit Dice cap shouldn't be used, except for the very low levels. Unless, of course, you can know your opponent's Hit Dice without spending 10 rounds staring at them. (You have no way of knowing if a creature has class levels on top of it.)
My experience with my own wizard character is a little different, because I jumped into a campaign halfway through, so I more options than a couple first level spells by the time I started character generation. That said, I have a couple of philosophical points that might help.
What made my wizard different wasn't what she did in combat. Both personality and practicality dictated that I used a lot of offensive, damage dealing spells, and when I wasn't doing that, I was using a lot of powerful transmutations and conjurations. However, what made her unique was how she approached magic outside of combat. The character was rather obsessive (other players may say anal) about how she adventured, and she had specific goals and knew what she had to do to get them. I decided I wanted a Batman type character in that she had a lot of contingencies (not just spells, although I researched an effect very familiar to the Craft Contingent Spell feat) and a lot of knowledge, so that she was always prepared.
Where a wizard (as opposed to a sorcerer) makes their money is outside of combat, such as troubleshooting, gathering information with magic, using charms and illusions to make the party's life easier. I worked at excelling in these areas, which gave her a niche to excel. Also, when I found a problem she couldn't solve, I used my downtime to research spells to help in those situations. Finally, I made sure with my high intelligence to put at least one rank in every knowledge skill, so I had a decent chance of knowing a little bit of everything. In all, my character's research during her downtime paid off during adventures, and also allowed her maximize her spells for combat as well. When my old friends talk about her, however, they focus on her obsessive and paranoid nature, although they usually agree thats how someone with that much intelligence and magically power would treat her world.
My point is that your spell selection isn't everything, its the reason why a character chooses their spells that is interesting. If you roleplay it intelligently, and your character has a coherent world view, you really don't need as many spell tricks as you might think.
What made my wizard different wasn't what she did in combat. Both personality and practicality dictated that I used a lot of offensive, damage dealing spells, and when I wasn't doing that, I was using a lot of powerful transmutations and conjurations. However, what made her unique was how she approached magic outside of combat. The character was rather obsessive (other players may say anal) about how she adventured, and she had specific goals and knew what she had to do to get them. I decided I wanted a Batman type character in that she had a lot of contingencies (not just spells, although I researched an effect very familiar to the Craft Contingent Spell feat) and a lot of knowledge, so that she was always prepared.
Where a wizard (as opposed to a sorcerer) makes their money is outside of combat, such as troubleshooting, gathering information with magic, using charms and illusions to make the party's life easier. I worked at excelling in these areas, which gave her a niche to excel. Also, when I found a problem she couldn't solve, I used my downtime to research spells to help in those situations. Finally, I made sure with my high intelligence to put at least one rank in every knowledge skill, so I had a decent chance of knowing a little bit of everything. In all, my character's research during her downtime paid off during adventures, and also allowed her maximize her spells for combat as well. When my old friends talk about her, however, they focus on her obsessive and paranoid nature, although they usually agree thats how someone with that much intelligence and magically power would treat her world.
My point is that your spell selection isn't everything, its the reason why a character chooses their spells that is interesting. If you roleplay it intelligently, and your character has a coherent world view, you really don't need as many spell tricks as you might think.
Speaking as one who often plays oddball wizards, try to remember this: If everybody does something a certain way, that is a prime reason TO NOT FOLLOW THEM!
Thinking "outside the box" is a great way to maximize your usefulness to the party, as well as to anoy the DM (which is often the same thing). A few cases in point:
Web: Who cares about the saving throw, or even casting it ON something? Think of this spell as a way to alter the battlefield. A well-placed web can seriously delay, or even eliminate, a sizable portion of the bad guys. You can slo use it to protect fallen friends until they can rejoin the battle, by having the party cleric drag them into a corner then casting the web so that the are hems them in while not catching them. It also blocks line-of-sight after 10 ft, a great way to screw with spellcasters and ranged attackers. Finally, if the bad guy definately WILL make his save (such as fighting a monk or rogue), it won't matter much when he is IN THE CENTER of the effect!
Flaming Sphere: Alternate attacking tool? Yes. Deensive Measure? Not often thought as one... In cramped conditions you can back-up the party warriors by placing the sphere in a square close to them so bad guys cannot flank, or seal off a 5-ft passge to anybody who doesn't want to get a little singed.
Rope Trick: Often used as a secure camping spot, thsi spell has other uses. Here is a hint: exactly how LONG does the rope have to be, and does it have to be tied off to anything?
Unseen Servant: Humourous story: my bard/monk/wizard (I said oddball) and his combat-cleric buddy had to face down a LITERAL hoarde of orcs, complete with shamans (Adepts). They infiltrated the stornghold by undeground passge, using this spell to drag a 25 lb branch ahead of them in order to set of traps. It then carried buckets of water to douse torches in the foyer. Finally cmobined with a dancing lights spell and my character's cloak it became "the great and terrible demon lord bubuathane, who sits upon his bloody throne of skulls dreading my command to come to this realm to do my bidding..." One Bluff and Intimidate check later, and we had our very own hoarde of orcs.
Last advice: Never balk at low-level spells as creative solutions, or to taking a couple of non-wizard levels to add to survival odds. My personal recomendations are one or two in Bard (Lore/saves/extra spells), Rogue (skills/evasion), and Monk (AC/saves/evasion).
Thinking "outside the box" is a great way to maximize your usefulness to the party, as well as to anoy the DM (which is often the same thing). A few cases in point:
Web: Who cares about the saving throw, or even casting it ON something? Think of this spell as a way to alter the battlefield. A well-placed web can seriously delay, or even eliminate, a sizable portion of the bad guys. You can slo use it to protect fallen friends until they can rejoin the battle, by having the party cleric drag them into a corner then casting the web so that the are hems them in while not catching them. It also blocks line-of-sight after 10 ft, a great way to screw with spellcasters and ranged attackers. Finally, if the bad guy definately WILL make his save (such as fighting a monk or rogue), it won't matter much when he is IN THE CENTER of the effect!
Flaming Sphere: Alternate attacking tool? Yes. Deensive Measure? Not often thought as one... In cramped conditions you can back-up the party warriors by placing the sphere in a square close to them so bad guys cannot flank, or seal off a 5-ft passge to anybody who doesn't want to get a little singed.
Rope Trick: Often used as a secure camping spot, thsi spell has other uses. Here is a hint: exactly how LONG does the rope have to be, and does it have to be tied off to anything?
Unseen Servant: Humourous story: my bard/monk/wizard (I said oddball) and his combat-cleric buddy had to face down a LITERAL hoarde of orcs, complete with shamans (Adepts). They infiltrated the stornghold by undeground passge, using this spell to drag a 25 lb branch ahead of them in order to set of traps. It then carried buckets of water to douse torches in the foyer. Finally cmobined with a dancing lights spell and my character's cloak it became "the great and terrible demon lord bubuathane, who sits upon his bloody throne of skulls dreading my command to come to this realm to do my bidding..." One Bluff and Intimidate check later, and we had our very own hoarde of orcs.
Last advice: Never balk at low-level spells as creative solutions, or to taking a couple of non-wizard levels to add to survival odds. My personal recomendations are one or two in Bard (Lore/saves/extra spells), Rogue (skills/evasion), and Monk (AC/saves/evasion).
Smart wizards who expect to be useful in combat do take a couple of damage spells for use when necessary - Chain Lightning is a favourite I've noticed. However a Wizard's primary forte is the out-of-combat or combat-enhancement stuff, like Spectral Steed, Dimension Door, Teleport, Fly, Prying Eyes, Improved Invisibility, Haste - Wizards can do almost anything if they set their minds to it. Killing things in battle is primarily a job for the Fighters & Fireballing-Sorcerers, Wizards are best at 'force multiplication' effects.
