Playing with dead things

[Hand of Evil]

It really is up to the DM on just how evil he makes it, as said in tons of threads before this. As a DM I would allow it but let you know it is not something that is looked on as being good and will piss a lot of people off.

Why? Simple, money and jobs, people will see the use of the dead as a threat to their security, cheap labor to thieft of the bones. Laws would make sure that they are not used in harmful or foul ways. First time a skeleton runs amok, the player will be questioned.

Oh, now you have the look factor. If something is ulgy and hard to look on, it will be mocked and seen as a bad/evil thing.

 

[Krail Stromquism]

Oh yeah! OE shout out

Anyone remember good old Brannart MacGregor from way up in Glantri?

Well supposedly he turns himself into a Lich to escape the effects of Radiance and then slowly starts turning his subjects into undead.

Its a really devastating chain of events and can easliy be abstracted by social level/undead HD.

All the barons and higher up mucky mucks were vampires or nosferatu, some wights and what not, you work your chain down to the common laborer and youve got skeletons and zombies.

Imagine the work force, nonstop continous labor always producing always digging, planting, building.

If your major cities dont use undead in some form or another you should take another look at the bounties of Undead labor. Criminals that die in the cities dungeon (prison) could be condemned to eternal labor, cleaning out sewers, working on farms or new construction.

as for EVIL!!! it all depends on how your pantheon is set up and how you veiw it. If any form undeath keeps the soul from reaching nirvana or heaven or where ever then itd have to be veiwed as an EVIL act, your tormenting someones soul. So if regular old torture isnt evil in your campaign, then creating undead problably wouldnt be either.

I think that an interesting philosophical line to play with if your a mage, create undead or no? Its a pretty cool thing to get high level and be able to say youve never cast those sorts of spells. We have a 36th Mage in our OE game that never has and it sets up a lot of good roleplaying avenues.

anyhow

 

[orbitalfreak]

This thread is perfect! I'm starting to work out a campaign centering around the rise of Necromancy in Thay (Forgotten Realms). It would include using undead-labour as a workforce, and for just about anything else that you could think up a use for. This thread will be liberally mined for ideas!

Now, my contributions.

Armed skeletons could be used as soldiers to guard a city. Have covered alcoves with doors in the base of the city wall that can be opened in case of an attack. Undead "live" under/inside the wall and can be activated when rivals assault the town. Open the passages and sic the skeletons on the attackers. They act as a slowing force and as fodder while the living inhabitants of the city prepare proper defences. "When we ring the watch bell, attack any non-undead that holds a weapon." Don't worry about any being destroyed, just animate the skeletons of friends and foes alike to replenish your resources.

You could build an entire society around using undead as cheap labour. With them tilling the fields, repairing city walls, working the mills (instead of a mule turning the grindstone, for instance), you free up a lot of the living to pursue other ventures. Some will still be needed to act as overseers of the undead, and to take care of some of the more intricate aspects of daily life: working with animals, craftwork and smithing, tending to crops (planted in undead-tilled fiends), etc.

A lot of undead could be used for mining the thousands of 25gp onyx gems you need for the animation process!

With most of the living freed from the tedious aspect of providing food for a nation, you could focus more on educating them. This, of course, would include clerics "educating" (brainwashing?) them about how great their nation/city-state/kingdom is and how necromancy makes their lives better. Helps to quell the peasant revolts if they think they're in good condition. Having a better educated populace means more people able to practice the magical arts (higher INT scores). This, in turn, leads to a society that uses more magic for mundane things. Advances in necromancy could also be discovered.

Maybe all this magic from a greater number of wizards could turn Thay (or wherever suits your campaign) into a mighty society. With this much power, maybe Thay will decide to spread its territory? Thay is centered on a mountain, correct? Anyone envisioning flying mountains? Could Thay rise to be a power to rival the ancient empire of Netheril?

Just some ideas to toss out.

"I love the dead... frequently!" -- Necromancer, Warcraft III.

 

[dave_o]

In that case, don't forget intelligent, subservient undead.

What about the eternally living sage, etc.?

 

[Krail Stromquism]

PACK em IN!

the skeletal defense is great cause you can just pack the buggars in ala the drop ships from starwars on naboo.

as well as the addition of archer batteries reigning arrows down on the opponents as they engage the skeletons, even if they hit the skeletons they take less damage.

Or even better get the incorporeals out there and its going to hell in a hand basket against any normal soldiers, as well as the dead shall raise!

Overwhelming numbers is key if used for invasion, its just too easy to turn low level undead or easy to defeat if time is given for preparation. They are mindless after all, silly traps will take out a lot of them.

Then again skeletons move so quickly now, they could march on cities fairly fast and never have to stop to rest.

 

[FoxWander]

Glad to see the thread take off. Here are some other ideas I've come up with...

How about a net lined with boa constrictor skeletons? Since skeletons retain their strength, that's be multiple 17 str snakes holding your target in place.

Are there rules anywhere covering how much a flying creature can lift? Cause how about an animated giant bee, beetle or wasp in place of the baboon backpack. Same benefits as before only now it might be able to fly you around.

A giant stag beetle could be modified into an excellent "wagon". It's not as fast as a horse but it never tires either. And it'd be a much smoother ride. All terrain vehicle too. Plus that trample attack could come in handy.

 

[Sanackranib]

check out the Creature Catalog Vol. I. they have what are called stone zombies. very usefull because they cant be turned and have hardness.

I used this technique to animate 4 draft horses to pull my wagon.
you can travel much farther in a day when the draft animals dont have to stop for rest, food or water!

 

[Voadam]

But now in 3.5 simple undead are neutral evil. What I want to know is- why? They are mindless- they have NO intelligence score. How can something that is mindless technically even HAVE an alignment? The word, by definition, means you're thinking is aligned a certain way- good, evil, law, chaos. If you do not think, how can you have tendencies one way or another? Let's put it this way- if I animate the bodies of the dead orcs that razed a village and have the zombies rebuild the houses of the survivors- is that evil? If zombies are inherently "evil" somehow, then it would be. But if I were to animate a skeleton and give it no commands whatsoever, it would simply stand there until it eventually crumbled to dust. If it's supposed to be "always neutral evil", as in the new MM, then shouldn't it go on a murderous rampage for lack of anything better to do? But it won't- it's mindless. It won't do anything unless I command it to. What are your thoughts on the new "evilness" of simple undead.

You mean you don't have to command your newly created undead to just sit there unless you command otherwise? They don't mindlessly go on a killing spree as wandering monsters attacking everything on sight because they are evil? Your DM does not consider himself an RB does he?

That is the difference between an evil undead that can be controlled and animated bones that require commands to do anything.

Come on, where else do all the wandering monster skeletons and zombies come from? If not commanded, they are evil things that attack people mindlessly.

You can command an evil undead to do nothing, or even to do good things, but it will not be according to their nature. Fortunately the animating spell makes their nature irrelevant once you give them a valid command to go against their nature.

By the way, your mannequin disguises are brilliant ideas. Detect evil still goes off because all undead detect as evil regardless of their alignment, but it is a great way to not scare mundanes.

 

[Hand of Evil]

With most of the living freed from the tedious aspect of providing food for a nation, you could focus more on educating them. This, of course, would include clerics "educating" (brainwashing?) them about how great their nation/city-state/kingdom is and how necromancy makes their lives better. Helps to quell the peasant revolts if they think they're in good condition. Having a better educated populace means more people able to practice the magical arts (higher INT scores). This, in turn, leads to a society that uses more magic for mundane things. Advances in necromancy could also be discovered.


"I love the dead... frequently!" -- Necromancer, Warcraft III.

Mmmm, more and more necromancers to to fill the need for more and more undead. Scarred Lands has a city book on it.