Playstyles

[Stormonu]

There's no right or wrong answer here, this is just to provoke some thought and discussion.

Assume that in running a typical game you had set up a side plot that a local lord was secretly behind the activities of several of the forces the PCs have been encountering. The local lord is disliked by the locals, already being known for imposing harsh taxes and being rather flamboyant and flagrant in his display of wealth. He's been using the monster attacks to impose martial law and legitimize the high taxes (supposably to fund his personal army that keeps the monsters at bay). His soldiers and lesser burueacrats have already been shown to be surly towards the PCs, though none seem to be obviously corrupt.

After the most recent adventure, the characters begin to suspect the lord's involvement behind the monster attacks. You had been playing with the idea that at a later date - when the PCs had eradicated most of the possible theats against the hold - that the lord would use his army to make a play at stealing power from his liege.

However, the players have decided they want to confront the lord now. They head to the lord's castle and, bouyed by their bard, ask/demand to have an audience with his lordship, with the ultimate goal of attempting to talk/force the lord into giving up his position.

How far would you let this go? Would you let the PCs talk their way into the "throneroom", force them to fight, make them sneak in or turn them away? Should they make their way to the "throneroom" could they talk down the lord without bloodshed, would you force them to battle the lord (no amount of talk would ever make him abdicate), or would you simply throw the PCs into the dungeons after pounding them into the dirt (i.e., no chance of success at this time, rile them up to take on the lord later but put fear in them now)? And would you use status quo (the lord and his minions are at the level of power you intend them to be when the PCs were to face them later) or would you tailor the encounter the PCs level?

 

[Stumblewyk]

I'd have the lord statted-out at a given level. That's his ability compared to the PCs. He has his forces, his defenses, and his resources.

I'd let the PCs get as far as they were willing and able to go. If they want to enter the lord's keep, and try to force their way into his throne room, then they're going to have to go through the lord's guards and likely the lord himself. If they fail in the attempt it might mean death or imprisonment. If they request and are granted a meeting, they can try to talk the lord down. It's not as likely to work now as it would be in a couple levels when I intended the encounter to occur, but they're perfectly welcome to try it.

It all comes down to the dice. I might have my plans, but I'm perfectly willing to let the PCs ruin them.

 

[Janx]

that was a side plot? Sounds like the main event....

Its good that you had your last paragrah. That explains the parts your looking for.

Starting the campaign, I might not even realize the monsters are driven by the lord. The monsters were probably just stuff I did to instigate some player action.

Once I came to the idea the Lord was behind it, I expect he'd be higher level than the monsters he manipulated (justifying his ability to do so).

Also, since he's a Boss, he's likely to be higher level that the PCs, just because (at least at the start of the idea, I'm not going to keep re-statting him).

from there, I've got to consider:

1. how do the PCs find out about him, what clues do I need?
2. How do I give the PCs a chance to not get themselves killed?

#1 means I need to drop in some relational clues for the monsters, and get the idea of how the lord behaves and his guards. Even the martial law thing.

#2 means, now that the PCs have a chance of finding out about the lord, I have to plan for that possibility. I don't mind breaking a few eggs in a fight, but I don't want a TPK if I can avoid it in a reasonable fashion. That means knowing what forces the lord has, in the even of a direct confrontation. From there, I can give the PCs info on the strength of those forces (thereby clueing them in that they need to level up a bit first).

Since the OP's question is "The PCs head in to the BBEG early, what do you do?"
I've already statted or guesstimated their stats. I'm not going to re-stat things. If I think they're not ready, I'll try to have NPCs relay warnings (allies warn them, or known strong allies get defeated, indicating the challenge level). At some point, the PCs will be in the throne room, regardless of my best efforts to 'save" them.

If my goal is to avoid a TPK, I have some options (not all are preferred):
can the BBEG retreat?
can the BBEG capture rather than TPK (thus the next session is a jailbreak)
can the PCs retreat?
Can the BBEG deny all charges and keep the scene combat-free?

If the PCs can't legitimately beat the BBEG either through combat, tactics, politics or guile, I do not want to reward them for rushing to this stage.

So, while I'll try to avoid killing them, the outcome of their survival must have a setback. Perhaps through mis-information, the King still sides with the Lord, thus the PCs are now temporarily wanted until they can clear their name.

Obviously, I can also just let a TPK happen. And I'm not discounting that the party COULD find a way to win. But if its going south, and they rushed it, I'll see if I can find a few outs to avoid the TPK.

Note: I won't avoid a TPK for idiots. Just for people who are trying to play the game, and misunderstood the situation. It's a gut-call.

One reason to avoid the TPK, is that in setting up this situation, my players and I have made an investment. If they blow it, they'll blow the whole campaign, because I won't run another party through the exact same material, nor will I spawn in new NPCs to resume the quest as that seems too hokey.

 

[amerigoV]

How far would you let this go? Would you let the PCs talk their way into....

... the Noose!

However, the players have decided they want to confront the lord now. They head to the lord's castle and, bouyed by their bard, ask/demand to have an audience with his lordship, with the ultimate goal of attempting to talk/force the lord into giving up his position.

Just because the bard is a sweet talker does not mean he will get exactly what he wants. Sure, he can talk his way onto the (long) list of people with petitions that the ruler sees once every six weeks. Beauracracy was created precisely for this reason - keep the riffraff away.

Even if he gets all the way to the throneroom, a simple diplomacy / bluff is not going to work. Sure, you can make him friendly, but that is not going to make him change his plans. He will just feel bad about ordering the PCs death is all.

I would not tailor to their level. The lords power is not in his own level but in his resources and span of control.

Of course, you could kill them and have them be martyrs of people when the new PCs waltz into town. (or vilified if the people still like/trust the Lord)

 

[Janx]

now that I've eaten lunch....

I'm not as far planning as the OP.

Let's say the party is 8th level, and have been dealing with a hierarchy of monsters that have been doing stuff.

For the next game, I decide that Lord Jerky has actually been behind the whole thing. So I write up some monster encounters like previous ones, but this time, I include some clue to lead to Lord Jerky.

I then assume the PCs will track it down (because I know my players), and build out Lord Jerky and his troops. I think Jerky should be level 10, so I make him that, plus some leveled henchmonkeys, etc.

In this example, prior to writing that session, Lord Jerky was an NPC that the party may not have even heard of (though there was room for him on the map).

In knowing my players, if I've got them willingly defending the town regularly from various monster threats, they'll no doubt go chasing after the instigator of these threats. so it's not a presumptious assumption that they'll bite the hook.

As a GM, what will be a surprise to me, is their approach. Do they go in diplomatically? Do they stealth in and straight up assassinate? Do they go to the king?

Furthermore, in this pattern of NOT being a long term plan, the NPCs will be Level Appropriate, because that's what I think the situation calls for. I probably don't need Lord Jerky to greatly out-level the PCs.

 

[Lord Ipplepop]

How far would you let this go? Would you let the PCs talk their way into the "throneroom", force them to fight, make them sneak in or turn them away? Should they make their way to the "throneroom" could they talk down the lord without bloodshed, would you force them to battle the lord (no amount of talk would ever make him abdicate), or would you simply throw the PCs into the dungeons after pounding them into the dirt (i.e., no chance of success at this time, rile them up to take on the lord later but put fear in them now)? And would you use status quo (the lord and his minions are at the level of power you intend them to be when the PCs were to face them later) or would you tailor the encounter the PCs level?

I would let it go as far as the players wanted it to go. Had I determined the Lord was a set level, then I would allow it to be set there. If they are not able to deal with it, then they might realize it and let it go for another time. Once they are in the throne room (after roleplaying the interim encounters with the various lackeys who will send them to another lackey, who is going to inform them that it is not his job, but rather a different lackey, who tells them that they they should go see (the first) lackey. If they, somehow, do make it in front of the Lord, he is obviously not stupid, or he would have been un lorded a long time before the characters got there. The characters actions would determine what happens, not some random die roll (well, ultimately, there might be a bluff/dipplomacy/whatever).
I play my "monsters" as intelligent beings with their own skills and abilities tht they have no challenges using to defeat those theya re against. If the players are stupid enough to attempt a combat situation on the lord's home turf with all of his loyal minions around when they are outnumbered and- possibly- olutclassed, then I have no challenges holding the game up while they re-roll new characters with the full knowledge that my Lord has now completed his evil plan.

 

[Lord Ipplepop]

How far would you let this go? Would you let the PCs talk their way into the "throneroom", force them to fight, make them sneak in or turn them away? Should they make their way to the "throneroom" could they talk down the lord without bloodshed, would you force them to battle the lord (no amount of talk would ever make him abdicate), or would you simply throw the PCs into the dungeons after pounding them into the dirt (i.e., no chance of success at this time, rile them up to take on the lord later but put fear in them now)? And would you use status quo (the lord and his minions are at the level of power you intend them to be when the PCs were to face them later) or would you tailor the encounter the PCs level?

I would let it go as far as the players wanted it to go. Had I determined the Lord was a set level, then I would allow it to be set there. If they are not able to deal with it, then they might realize it and let it go for another time. Once they are in the throne room (after roleplaying the interim encounters with the various lackeys who will send them to another lackey, who is going to inform them that it is not his job, but rather a different lackey, who tells them that they they should go see (the first) lackey. If they, somehow, do make it in front of the Lord, he is obviously not stupid, or he would have been un lorded a long time before the characters got there. The characters actions would determine what happens, not some random die roll (well, ultimately, there might be a bluff/dipplomacy/whatever).
I play my "monsters" as intelligent beings with their own skills and abilities tht they have no challenges using to defeat those theya re against. If the players are stupid enough to attempt a combat situation on the lord's home turf with all of his loyal minions around when they are outnumbered and- possibly- olutclassed, then I have no challenges holding the game up while they re-roll new characters with the full knowledge that my Lord has now completed his evil plan.

 

[steenan]

If I was running the game, it would be quite easy for the PCs to talk their way in - if they are not 1st level, they should be quite well known locally, and such people should not have any problem with getting an audience with the local ruler. If there was any reason for suspicion (and there probably would be some), the PCs wouldn't be allowed to carry any weapons in. Giving away weapons could be avoided with a little diplomacy, but it would be much harder than just meeting with the lord.

During the audience, it would be easy to get a hunch that the lord is hiding something. It would be moderately hard (requiring pushing the conversation in a correct direction and making a few rolls) to clearly see what is going on.

What would happen further depends on what the lord knows about the PCs. If he knows they are not very powerful or well-connected, it would be impossible to persuade him to give up his position. If he found their attitude offensive, he'd have them thrown away or arrested; if not, he'd dismiss their accusations as a vile rumor and ask them to leave or change the topic (eg. pointing them to something he would like to have done). It is also possible that, if they already saw through his plans, he would admit their accusations are true and then laugh at them because nobody important will believe such thing.

If the lord knew that heroes are much more powerful than his guards (probably a lot of 1st level warriors and a handful of 3rd level fighters), he would try to bluff his way out of the problem. If it failed, he'd back off, trying to negotiate best surrender conditions (eg. abdicating and leaving instead of being arrested or killed).

If the lord didn't know PCs power level but had reasons to see them as dangerous, or if he judged them powerful but not overpowering, nearly every result would be possible and the most would depend on players' decisions and dice rolls. There could be some compromises, there could be a fight, anything. Depending on PCs line of questioning, the lord would either claim he's innocent or pose as much more powerful than he is.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

I would allow them to give it a try. When the PCs confront the lord they've tipped their hand so I would have the lord hide behind his reputation and power of office and dodge and deny the allegations. If the PCs could work him into a corner I might have the lord resort to combat measures to escape but most likely he'd let them say their peace and leave (or throw them out). At that point the PCs are on his radar as threats and he'd take measures to have them disposed of. (And "disposed of" could mean assassinated but it could also involve blackmail, exile, coercion with threats on a loved one, etc.)

One main point that I would stress if I were running this plot is that the lord is wrapped in political/social power such that killing him will mean serious repercussions for the players. This plot has so much potential that I think it would be wasted if the players simply fell to a combat solution and tried to kill him off.