D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Mirrorrorrim]

What if you do the shock damage and then teleported 5' away on a hit? Like you're sucking some energy from someone to power a very short range teleport.

That merges a bit of conjuration/transmutation into it.

I will admit that one of my favorite magical effect themes is "Riding the Lightning" where you turn into lightning to "teleport" a short distance, but deal lightning damage between your starting and destination points. But for some reason it doesn't click for me unless it is literally transforming the caster and moving a distance. Weird.

 

[Kinematics]

What would a reasonable upleveling for Blade Ward be? An extra defense at each tier?
Range doesn't seem to fit at all, unless the idea is that your Blade Ward now works against thrown weapons?

At first I was thinking it might apply to attacks with reach, but re-reading the spell, it already handles that. It just applies to any melee attack, without any range limit. It would even work against the World Tree barbarian's potentially 20' reach with melee attacks.

So I'm pretty sure it was Jeremy making a mistake, mixing up the spells he was talking about.

 

[Yaarel]

It's the most damaging cantrip from 1 to 16. Works in both melee and range, with longer range, and a superior damage type.

And assuming you get a magic weapon of some kind, it's better at 17+ too.

As this stands, no one would ever take poison spray or firebolt again.

Are you gonna make me do the math?

If that is your conclusion, 1−16, spell it out.

(And yeah, I dont consider assumptions of magic items to be useful.)

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Here's what I would go with.

True Strike
You automatically hit, but deal half damage. Do not add any damage modifiers, such as sneak attack.
At higher level: 5: you deal full damage.
11: you critically hit.
17: deal max damage.

(Note I haven't done the math to see if that balanced).

So, no critting? And from levels 1-4 you deal 1d8, halved? No thanks.

If auto damage was a thing, I'd rather Magic Missile become a cantrip (or create a new cantrip like "Force Bolt") that creates only 1 magic missile from levels 1-4, and adds another missile at 5th, 11th, and 17th.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

It's the most damaging cantrip from 1 to 16. Works in both melee and range, with longer range, and a superior damage type.

And assuming you get a magic weapon of some kind, it's better at 17+ too.

As this stands, no one would ever take poison spray or firebolt again.

I like the new True Strike a LOT. It can be melee or ranged and literally gives weapon-loving casters and gishes a solid cantrip attack, with Gandalf-style flashes of radiance as you hit. But it isn't a must have for all casters. You really need to want to use weapons.

On a mostly unrelated note... Guiding Bolt's radiance assists with accuracy as well, though in a different way. Hmmm... would it be so wrong if Guiding Bolt were re-designed as a Divination spell?

 

[mellored]

Are you gonna make me do the math?

If that is your conclusion, 1−16, spell it out.

(And yeah, I dont consider assumptions of magic items to be useful.)

1d8+5+2d6 = 16.5
3d10 = 16.5

Same damage, but useful in melee, range, and better damage type.

Though I guess poison spray does a little more at 11+.

So, no critting? And from levels 1-4 you deal 1d8, halved? No thanks.

1d8+3 halved.

So 3.75 auto damage
Vs
3.575 for firebolt (@ 60% chance to hit).

Which is at least closer than it is now, and makes it different than anything else, but again, I didn't math it out

If auto damage was a thing, I'd rather Magic Missile become a cantrip (or create a new cantrip like "Force Bolt") that creates only 1 magic missile from levels 1-4, and adds another missile at 5th, 11th, and 17th.

half the complaints where about it not being a "true" strike, but just a "competent" strike.

So auto damage. Which would make it unique and not just another attack roll.

 

[mellored]

I like the new True Strike a LOT. It can be melee or ranged and literally gives weapon-loving casters and gishes a solid cantrip attack, with Gandalf-style flashes of radiance as you hit. But it isn't a must have for all casters. You really need to want to use weapons.

As is, it is a must have (not broken, but still a clear winner).

But if you like it...

Only allow the attack roll to use your spell casting modifier. Leave the damage roll as default. (Allow wizards with Str to get a little extra damage).

Then you can scale with a d8 ranged or d10 for melee. Or possibly the weapon damage die.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

As is, it is a must have (not broken, but still a clear winner).

But if you like it...

Only allow the attack roll to use your spell casting modifier. Leave the damage roll as default. (Allow wizards with Str to get a little extra damage).

Then you can scale with a d8 ranged or d10 for melee. Or possibly the weapon damage die.

I'm fine with the current, effective, simple design. Other cantrips just need some attention (Shocking Grasp at a d10, for instance).

 

[Yaarel]

1d8+5+2d6 = 16.5
3d10 = 16.5

Same damage, but useful in melee, range, and better damage type.

Fair enough. So it is only the highest tier that is an issue. Even then, only by 2 damage.

Though I guess poison spray does a little more at 11+.

Poison frequently encounters immunity, so the spell needs to be appealing in other ways.

A damage boost is understandable.

Since Poison is a common threat, Poison Spray would be powerful if it could also negate Poison damage as an antivenom.

 

[James Gasik]

You could also say: "I hate the concept of the warlord." and get an equal amount of hate.

Oh yeah, it was just the first thing I could think of that seems to be omni-offensive. But hey, I guess the upside of Friends is that it can offend everyone equally, and you don't even need a Verbal component!