D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[the Jester]

The bonus is that they can use their primary casting ability score rather than Dex or Strength. That can easily be up to a +6 difference for a staff-wielding Wizard with an 8 Strength and 20 Intelligence.

Shouldn't true strike be a good choice for an eldritch knight? As is, it's terrible.

 

[Yaarel]

I calculated that True Strike with a Magical Rapier with bonuses of +1 or higher at certain levels, actually could do the equivalent average damage of a d10 Cantrip. Like a level 17 Firebolt with a 22 damage average, vs a +2 Rapier with True Strike at 17th level could do an average of 4.5+3*3.5+5(ability mod)+2=22 damage. Though by 17th level they might be using something stronger than just a +2 rapier.

While a +2 weapon seems innocuous enough. All official calculations should be avoiding the assumption of magic items. Not all settings have them. Also there may be magic items that boost the Firebolt cantrip. A magic item makes anything strictly better.

The value of a cantrip needs to compare to an other cantrip directly.

To resort to magic items to achieve balance, confirms True Strike seems subpar at the highest tiers.

 

[Yaarel]

But it's not a 5th level martial ability.

It's a cantrip. You need to compare it to other cantrips.

And great club + light crossbow (just swap) + true stike is now the default attack cantrip every caster will have.

Not to mention it can stack all cantrip bonuses (agonizing blast, potent cantrip) and all weapon bonuses (clerics divine strike).

We are mainly talking about improving the True Strike at the higher tiers, when scaling.

I agree the cantrip is fine at the lowest tier (levels 1 thru 4).

 

[Kobold Avenger]

While a +2 weapon seems innocuous enough. All official calculations should be avoiding the assumption of magic items. Not all settings have them. Also there may be magic items that boost the Firebolt cantrip. A magic item makes anything strictly better.

The value of a cantrip needs to compare to an other cantrip directly.

To resort to magic items to achieve balance, confirms True Strike seems subpar at the highest tiers.

Magical weapons are very likely, though you could have a non-magical Musket and it'll do the same average as a Firebolt. Though I don't think there's many characters with both True Strike and proficiency with a Musket, Artificers unfortunately don't have True Strike as a Cantrip (though that might change if Artificers get updated).

 

[Yaarel]

Magical weapons are very likely, though you could have a non-magical Musket and it'll do the same average as a Firebolt. Though I don't think there's many characters with both True Strike and proficiency with a Musket, Artificers unfortunately don't have True Strike as a Cantrip (though that might change if Artificers get updated).

In some settings, including Forgotten Realms, magic weapons are likely. But it is also possible to have a magic item that boosts cantrips.

So a magic-buffed True Strike would need to compare to a magic-buffed Firebolt, in which case the True Strike is subpar at the higher tiers.

A reliable optimization comparison needs to ignore magic items.

 

[bedir than]

Blade Ward – Changes from an action to a reaction. Massive improvement on action economy. Imposes disadvantage on an attack rather than resistance to physical damage. Downgrade since it only affects one attack, rather than lasting the whole round, however for a single attack is a similar net effect. Overall, much improved.

Note: Jeremy mentioned its range increasing at higher levels, in the YouTube video. I think he was mixing Blade Ward up with Spare the Dying, or they failed to include the higher tier effects in the PDF, as no such modification is included here.

I may have missed this, but the lack of upleveling notes on Blade Ward seems unintentional. They've stated that they want more spells with upleveling effects.

What would a reasonable upleveling for Blade Ward be? An extra defense at each tier?
Range doesn't seem to fit at all, unless the idea is that your Blade Ward now works against thrown weapons?

 

[bedir than]

Magical weapons are very likely

This is neither true by RAI, RAW or in play at the table. Simple +X weapons are just not the norm

 

[Yaarel]

I may have missed this, but the lack of upleveling notes on Blade Ward seems unintentional. They've stated that they want more spells with upleveling effects.

What would a reasonable upleveling for Blade Ward be? An extra defense at each tier?
Range doesn't seem to fit at all, unless the idea is that your Blade Ward now works against thrown weapons?

A few things are good at any tier. Like Advantage, Disadvantage, a + to hit, an AC boost.

 

[mellored]

Here's what I would go with.

True Strike
You automatically hit, but deal half damage. Do not add any damage modifiers, such as sneak attack.
At higher level: 5: you deal full damage.
11: you critically hit.
17: deal max damage.

(Note I haven't done the math to see if that balanced).

 

[mellored]

We are mainly talking about improving the True Strike at the higher tiers, when scaling.

I agree the cantrip is fine at the lowest tier (levels 1 thru 4).

It's the most damaging cantrip from 1 to 16. Works in both melee and range, with longer range, and a superior damage type.

And assuming you get a magic weapon of some kind, it's better at 17+ too.

As this stands, no one would ever take poison spray or firebolt again.