D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Mistwell]

Not really.
Is it worth arguing over a single point of damage?

Yes? It's literally the entire argument being made. Poison Spray is 6.5 damage, and the light crossbow is 7.5. If it turns out the ranged weapon they can use is a d6 rather than a d8, it's identical to Poison Spray.

 

[Mistwell]

I'd like the caster to be able to use it with a bow or crossbow, both of which are two-handed.

And I am arguing they cannot. And I am betting that's the intent here, since the somatic requires free hand to make gestures with while the weapon requires simultaneous aiming and firing of the weapon with two hands that are not making wild somatic gestures,

 

[Neonchameleon]

What weapon is the 1d8 which 1) doesn't have the two handed property issue, 2) which the wizard is proficient with? This is why I said give me a real example.

I certainly, and I think most people disagree with your interpretation here and think that the light crossbow is a real example.

 

[mellored]

Yes? It's literally the entire argument being made. Poison Spray is 6.5 damage, and the light crossbow is 7.5. If it turns out the ranged weapon they can use is a d6 rather than a d8, it's identical to Poison Spray.

Also melee / 80' range radiant
vs 30' poison.

Anyways, I disagree with your reasoning. Material components can be in the same hand as Somatic. And the fancy gesture includes pointing it.

But if True Strike was 1-handed (d6 at 30'), that would be balanced enough.

Anyways...

I think Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch could both use a die upgrade.

Still need to consider Shillelagh. Note that the ability score is optional, so any high level fighter could get a 2d6 weapon + shield. But maybe that's worth a feat...

 

[Neonchameleon]

Still need to consider Shillelagh. Note that the ability score is optional, so any high level fighter could get a 2d6 weapon + shield. But maybe that's worth a feat...

+1 damage per hit at level 5 isn't that significant. +2 at level 11 does something - but the fighter should have already hit Str 20 at level 8, with their rivals all hitting at level 12 so I don't mind. And I really really am not worried about buffing level 17 fighters by 2.5 damage per hit.

Something to look at however.

 

[Mistwell]

I certainly, and I think most people disagree with your interpretation here and think that the light crossbow is a real example.

OK, so let's agree to disagree. Is there any other weapon you're referring to here? Or is the entire basis of saying the cantrip is overpowered is this iffy interpretation of a light crossbow?

 

[James Gasik]

A Staff can be wielded in two hands due to the Versatile type and it can be an Arcane Spellcasting Focus- so this should work, since "A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components." Thus you can get d8 damage with it?

 

[mellored]

OK, so let's agree to disagree. Is there any other weapon you're referring to here? Or is the entire basis of saying the cantrip is overpowered is this iffy interpretation of a light crossbow?

If your sticking with 1-handed, then the Javelin, at d6 range 30' + melee.

Which is close enough to balance. Especially since throwing it at low level actually might cost you something.

Otherwise, shortbow is also a simple weapon with over twice the range of poison spray.

If you did something go get martial weapons somehow, then you deserve better than firebolt.

Do Elfs still get longbow proficiency?

Hand crossbow might be best, but again, your investing resources so it's allowed to be better.

Also, they closed any loopholes about crossbow expertise and such. As they only trigger on "attack" action.

Sneak attack is the big one. But since True Strike must use your spell casting modifier, you're going to be a lower Dex rogue. So you get a little more damage at the cost of AC, and that's fair.

Same with Eldritch Knight. Ironically using True Strike would make it a lower accuracy attack, unless your 20/20, but that's spending feats.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes? It's literally the entire argument being made. Poison Spray is 6.5 damage, and the light crossbow is 7.5. If it turns out the ranged weapon they can use is a d6 rather than a d8, it's identical to Poison Spray.

Ok... so the wizard having a crossbow ready does 1 more damage than the one spraying poison at will...

makes sense to me.

 

[Stalker0]

Not really.
Is it worth arguing over a single point of damage?

Welcome to the character optimization boards!